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Unlocking the Yamaha E70

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  • Hello Ewaves,

    The subject is in the arpeggiator circuit, somehow that octave will have to be lowered.
    I bought a Behringer RD8 drum machine, tested it today, and there is no way to sync the tempo to the organ.
    Also the arpeggiator every time it starts it goes out of time in the first and second notes ... I don't know if this can be fixed ...

    Greetings.

    - Alejandro.

    Comment


    • The arpeggiator can not go lower to 16', it's designed this way, properly because your supposed to do some pedal stuff with it, and then you hardly can hear the pedals, it's still an organ.
      Have you tried the opto-coupler trick to the sync-LED or rhythm-LED for the RD8 ?
      There is no description of the arpeggiator i.c.'s into the service guide analyses, so we can't do nothing on it's behavior.

      I did some experiments with the designs for a simple one-transistor level shifter, but came not any further than -5v, not enough to trigger, but I think found the right solution for it,
      I want to keep it as simple as possible and not to use a lot of parts for it.

      Greetings

      Comment


      • When I say arpeggiator can not go lower than 16', I was looking to the schematic's of the E50, but I see flute for lower keyboard can go to 16' on the E70.
        With the arpeggiator on for the flute 16', will you hear then the lower octave ?

        I also think that the arpeggiator cut off the length of the note, can you confirm that, that a note with a long release will be shortened in time, even
        when you have a slow rhythm ?
        Last edited by Ewaves; 11-18-2020, 05:37 AM.

        Comment


        • Hi Ewaves,

          The arpeggiator doesn't cut the note until the next one hits. Would you have any idea what optocoupler I could use for the Tap? I know there are several types ...

          A greeting!

          - Alejandro.

          Comment


          • Its not critical at all, for an earlier project I used a digital one, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DrNlqle1A
            But for this low speed purpose or if you need a higher voltage, you can use almost any npn optocoupler like the 4n28 to get an 5v trigger out, see link in my project.
            You can connect the opto coupler LED in parallel with the existent LED, so you will have a visual at somehow halve the intensity.

            Greetings
            Last edited by Ewaves; 11-20-2020, 03:54 AM.

            Comment


            • Thanks Ewaves, awesome video !!! Cheers !!!

              Comment


              • Merry Christmas!!!

                How's everything going Ewaves ????

                A greeting!

                - Alejandro.

                Comment


                • I'm to late to wish you the same !
                  On the moment I'm not working at the organ because I have other priorities, think I start again halveway January.
                  So far I found out that the organ memorice its notes, what make things a lot easier.
                  On paper I design al ready a circuit where you can choose between Original keyboards or Midi in, for people who want the organ to be in a Original state.

                  Greetings

                  Comment


                  • Hi Ewaves and Alejandro! I started this thread way back in 2008 and I visit a few times a year to see if anything interesting has happened. I'm amazed that the thread is still active after 12 years! I never modified my E70 in the end - it's still all original. I wanted to do the mods but life 'got in the way' a few years ago when I moved house, but it worked out well because I bought a house with enough space to build a studio, and I just got my E70, Hammond C3/122 and Lowrey MX1 out of storage a few weeks ago and into the new studio.

                    Ewaves your MIDI project is very exciting! Do you think MIDI clock sync input might ever be possible - to sync the E70 drum machine/accomp/arpeggio to incoming MIDI clock? I guess it would be extremely difficult, and much easier to do what you said, and use an optocoupler to sync external equipment to the E70 instead. Still, MIDI clock sync, in addition to MIDI note input would be amazing!

                    Alejandro I love what you've done with your E70, and your YT videos are really impressive. In fact, hearing your results with the pitch ribbon and FX, the sounds you were getting before you modified your E70 might be enough for me and my E70 to make it interesting as a studio instrument. You said that you just connected a slide potentiometer to the PCM 81 - is it connected to the foot switch control input? What was the value (ohms) and length (mm) of the pot you used, and what program do you use on the PCM 81?

                    Cheers
                    Frank
                    Last edited by dr funk; 12-30-2020, 10:05 PM.
                    Hammond C3 & Leslie 122, Yamaha E70, Lowrey MX1

                    Comment


                    • First of all, everyone a good and happy 2021 !!
                      Nice to have you back, dr funk, after all these years !
                      I remember your comments also on the syntforum when Adamstan got his E50, I think.
                      I follow this thread from about 2014, but it took me years to got an E50 myself.

                      To answer your question, Midi clock can not directly sync the drum machine/accomp/arpeggio out of the box,
                      but it will sync on every midi note for the lower keyboard, but you have to move the start switches manually, just in the same way if you play a note on the lower keyboard.

                      Greetings
                      Last edited by Ewaves; 01-01-2021, 06:13 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Happy 2021! I hope it is better than the previous one.

                        Hi Ewaves and Frank!
                        Regarding the optocoupler and Tap Tempo, put the idea aside because it would not work well. By using the Tap by hand you can tell, and it is possible that the arpeggiator is at a tempo of 120.78 and in the case of my behriger drum machine, it is either at 120 or at 121, with which it doesn't sync perfectly. But I have done something to fix it, I have put a precision 10k potentiometer in the tempo of the arpeggiator (it is a potentiometer that turns 10 turns, it has a special knob that counts the turns to know in which position it is) and in that way I synchronize the arpeggiator with the tempo of the snare, regulating. There are free applications for the phone that count the Bpm in audio and with decimaldecimal...


                        Regarding the ribbon and the PCM81 ... The resistance value can fluctuate in a wide range because the PCM measures the value and adapts, I buy mine online at TME, you can search for it as a "membrane potentiometer" of 500mm. You have to connect it to the expression pedal input, I use only two wires (if you want detailed information, I'll take a good look at it and tell you) Regarding the program, if you know the PCM81, you will see that there are several types of algorithms, it does not work on everyone. I accidentally reset to factory status and lost that program and other interesting ones that I had modified, but I will look for a way to do it again. You have to program the source and destination in one of the patches and then adjust the values, it is quite confusing but the options are great. In some video I also varied the tone with the Vocalist TC Electronic, through a midi keyboard, it failed a lot especially if I made more than one voice, however the PCM goes without problem ... I will also try it via midi.

                        Ewaves, the midi theme is interesting ... but at this stage we will have to put MIDI 2.0 on it.😁😁😁
                        I will be aware of your progress, I hope you can achieve it.

                        Meanwhile I am going to make an invention with DMX (language for show lights) it is about controlling the keys and other parameters from a computer through DMX boards. This last video was an improvisation to show a "Brass" sound made with the E70, it encompasses the trombone, saxophone and trumpet timbrica, all in one ... you have to handle the pedal and key-vibrato quite a bit.

                        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=23QdQ19kgZE

                        I will make a video showing the regulation of parameters with DMX

                        Greetings.

                        - Alejandro.



                        ​​​​​​

                        Comment


                        • Precision potentiometer for tempo.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ewaves View Post
                            First of all, everyone a good and happy 2021 !!
                            Nice to have you back, dr funk, after all these years !
                            I remember your comments also on the syntforum when Adamstan got his E50, I think.
                            I follow this thread from about 2014, but it took me years to got an E50 myself.

                            To answer your question, Midi clock can not directly sync the drum machine/accomp/arpeggio out of the box,
                            but it will sync on every midi note for the lower keyboard, but you have to move the start switches manually, just in the same way if you play a note on the lower keyboard.

                            Greetings
                            Nice to be back, Ewaves! I was trying to think about what might be needed for MIDI tempo sync, and my best guess is that you would have to find the tempo clock signal inside the E70 (maybe at the tempo pot), then replicate that perfectly using an external generator, taking care to match not only waveform and voltage, but also maybe impedance, and then there may also be ground issues? Basically, you would have to fool the E70 into thinking that it's seeing the internal clock signal. And then you would have to find a way to sync the external clock to MIDI clock. It sounds incredibly difficult, if not impossible, because you would also have to break the internal clock connection and inject the new clock signal instead. And who knows what other interactions are happening inside the E70, and what unintended consequences might happen if the internal clock signal is broken and replaced at just one point.

                            Of course I could be completely wrong, because the tempo pot might just be providing something like a control voltage for a different part of the circuit entirely...

                            What do you think?

                            Frank
                            Hammond C3 & Leslie 122, Yamaha E70, Lowrey MX1

                            Comment


                            • Alejandro, you have very impressive and clever solutions. I had no idea that such a simple and cheap ribbon controller existed, and I didn't know that the PCM 81 could do pitch shifting like you showed in the video. Sadly I don't have a PCM 81, but I've added it to my Reverb saved searches... And I like the precision pot for tempo. It's a great idea, although surely the tempo will drift unless they are 'properly' synchronised? How long does your E70 stay in sync with the RD8 drum machine before they start to drift?

                              Here's a question: have you been able to adjust the E70 tempo to exactly 120.00, for example, using the precision pot? If so, could you use Ewaves' suggestion of an optocoupler from the E70 arpeggiator LED (which is in quarter notes) to sync the RD8 to the E70 using a PPQ value of 1, and then use the RD8 to generate sync pulses/MIDI clock for other gear? Not sure how stable it would be, but it might actually work...

                              Frank
                              Hammond C3 & Leslie 122, Yamaha E70, Lowrey MX1

                              Comment


                              • Hi Frank,

                                Regarding the PCM, it is a good purchase, there are more ways to vary the pitch, but with the PCM it can be done with great precision, since it divides each semitone into a hundred parts. But if you know it, you will know that it is complex to program, but that it offers many possibilities. I was programming again to move the tone with the ribbon, it can be done in several ways, today I got it in a different way, but I will continue investigating because I liked it better as I had it before resetting, now it only varies an octave before it could vary 3. I also did tests with the Tempo, I downloaded an application, but it did not have much precision, since I measured the Behringer drum machine at 120 and it oscillated between 119.8 and 120.1 and I suppose it is a matter of the application, if I get the form To measure accurately the adjustment is easy to do with this potentiometer. Anyway I'm doing something that will control the notes I want and other parameters as a sequencer, so the tempo will have to be adjusted from this invention. I see that the behringer has a minijack input for sync, but I don't know what it is.
                                Greetings to all!

                                - Alejandro.

                                Comment

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