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  • Roland Atelier Question



    Hi all,</p>

    I wanted to ask a question of Roland Atelier owners/players just to be sure my ears are not deceiving me. Many of the "solo" voices (like trumpet, flute, etc.) sound more realistic played starting the octave above middle C. This happens to be the range at which the split of lower keyboard occurs for the solo section. I assume that this is because these voices are in their respective pitch ranges when played in this region of the keyboard.
    </p>I play both hymns (I'm a church organist) and pop music on the Roland. Thus, I am used to playing on the upper manual at pitch level for hymns. Also, with most of the Full Organ presents, I am used to playing an octave higher than written. However, I sometimes find it difficult to decide the most appropriate position to play when using the solo voices. By "most appropriate" I mean the region of the upper keyboard where the voice sounds most authentic/realistic.


    Thanks,</p>

    Allen</p>

    P.S. Andy G., I would appreciate your input on this.</p>
    Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

    YouTube Channel

  • #2
    Re: Roland Atelier Question



    Getting the sounds in their correct range is important when playing!</P>


    Let's take the examples you gave. A flute's lowest possible note is Middle C, and it's a more difficult range for the flautist to play in. The sound will be soft and mellow. If he tries to play loud in this range, the flute won't do it, and will jump an octave. It's only when you get about half an octave or more above Middle C that the flute comes to life, with a brighter, louder sound. Similar thing with the trumpet, which won't go far below middle C, depending on the skill of the player. Same thing applies to a lot of woodwind and brass sounds - there's a definite range that they're comfortable in, and it's that range that we're used to hearing.</P>


    It's not really anything to do with the lower keysplit, as you can position this anywhere you like, as well as using octave shift on any voice.</P>


    Many, ifnot allof those Full Organ sounds will have a 16' stop in them, so you will need to play an octave higher to avoid a muddy sound.</P>


    It's worth getting a small book that gives instrument ranges, so you know what you're up to, but you also need to know their comfortable ranges and their dynamic contour - whe're they're soft and mellow, or loud and bright. There are quite a few books like this, as well as info on the Net.</P>


    I have this sneaking feeling that Roland take more samples in the 'normal' ranges, especially with the voices that have sampled vibrato. Low down, they do tend to skimp a bit, because they know that you won't play down there that much!</P>


    Andy</P>
    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
    Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Roland Atelier Question



      Andy (and others),</p>

      Thank you for your reply. It is as suspected. I played saxophone in the band in middle school but do not remember all that much about the pitch ranges of various instruments. Even though I have I had the Roland about eight years, I tend to use mostly the organ voices and sounds. I do not use the solo voices all that much. My first two (and only other instruments prior to the Roland) were Yamaha organs from late 70s or early 80s. This first was a small spinet, the 115; the second, a 415 (same as D-85). Also, most of my playing has been on older organs or classical instruments. Thus, I much more familiar with using and having traditional stops with footages. This lack of experience is why I do not use the solo voices much on the Roland. I need to used more of the features on the Roland!
      </p>

      I posted this question due to a post on a keyboard forum. It included a link to a webpage that lists pitch ranges for various instruments. Here is the link for others who are interested. Pitch Ranges for Various Instruments</p>

      I hope others find this information useful.</p>

      Later,</p>

      Allen
      </p>
      Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

      YouTube Channel

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Roland Atelier Question



        Is it possible to get hold of the updgrade/update for the AT-90 that was produced when the R or S models came out?</p>

        </p>

        If the organ had already been upgraded, how would I know this?</p>

        </p>

        Thanks for you help.</p>

        </p>

        Geoff</p>

        </p>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Roland Atelier Question



          Original 90's could be upgraded at one time to 90R. The 90S is a different instrument entirely, and could be upgraded to 90SL. Externally, you might see a 90R or "90S Luxury" badge. Internally, you'd have to examine the main digital board to see if the expansion slots on it were used or empty.</p>

          I don't think you can get hold of either update now. </p>

          Andy
          </p>
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Roland Atelier Question



            Hello Andy - thanks for your guidance. If the AT-90 has been updated to R or 'Luxury S' (let me know if I have that wrong! What aspects of the organ would hav been changed/improved?</p>

            </p>

            Geoff</p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Roland Atelier Question



              Just to clarify what I said.</p>

              The 90 could be upgraded to 90R but no further. The 90S could be upgraded to 90SL but no further.</p>

              What you got in the hardware parts of the upgrades (plug in IC's or daughter boards) were a lot of extra voices. I couldn't tell you which ones off the top of my head. The software upgrade included new rhythm patterns and a new operating system to handle the extra sounds and rhythms, as well as adding a few extra features.</p>

              Externally, all you'd see is the R or S Luxury badge, which came with the upgrades and most, if not all, techs would stick on. It even came with an alignment tool to get the badge on straight!</p>

              Andy
              </p>
              It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

              New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

              Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
              Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
              Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
              Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Roland Atelier Question



                Thanksfor your help although the news on availability is bad.</p>

                </p>

                I have a couple of queries on playing this AT-90:</p>

                </p>

                When I hold a single note on either keyboard on a strings or choir setting, I can detect a 'beat' or it might be described as a rhythmic change in timbre. I have ensured that, in each case, neither alternate nor chorus settings have been selected.</p>

                </p>

                The other thing concerns Initial Touch - is it On or OFF or are there any modifications the select? When playing a legato style of slow moving parts I the organ sometimes does not sound one of the notes. This is not related to the upper solo voice circumstances. It's almost as though the organ had run out of parts in polyphony!!!</p>

                </p>

                I have to say that the second touch is poor compared with that of the Yamaha US1/EL series where it gives true warmth and breadth of tone to a cello, trombone etc rather than the excessive vibration of an elastic band!</p>

                </p>

                Kind regards to all</p>

                </p>

                Geoff</p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Roland Atelier Question



                  1) What you're hearing in the strings/choir is called looping. The organ uses samples for all sounds, and for long sustained sounds it loops the sample round and round. If the start and end points of the loop don't match exactly - and they won't ever do so with ensemble sounds - then you may hear a glitch when the sample loops back round. The longer the sample and the better it is produced, the less you'll hear it. The original 90 is a few years old now and sampling has changed a lot since then. On instruments of that era, regardless of make, you got some looping. Modern instruments are much better, with better sampling and much longer samples (memory was expensive back then). Older instruments like the US1 didn't use sampled strings or choir, IIRC, but added an ensemble effect using a DSP unit, so were immune to this!</p>

                  2) Don't know if Initial Touch is variable on a 90. It's certainly possible on the 90S onwards. </p>

                  3) Notes not playing? Doubt if it's a polyphony issue, more likely that the key has not been played hard enough, due to the Initial Touch being set high (if it's variable) or simply on (if not).</p>

                  4) Aftertouch is applied to vibrato on the 90 series. Yamaha used it for tonal changes. Both are good uses. If used properly, vibrato on aftertouch is very useful. Again, I don't know if it's fixed or variable on the 90. It is from the S series. Is it detailed in the owners' manual?
                  </p>

                  Andy
                  </p>
                  It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                  New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                  Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                  Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                  Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                  Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Roland Atelier Question



                    Geoff and Andy,</p>

                    I just checked my AT-90. The initial touch is NOT variable, it is either on or off.</p>

                    I'm with Andy on the notes not playing. I don't believe it is polyphony issue--I have never noticed notes dropping out due to polyphony. However, I have noticed notes dropping due to lack of pressure on the key with the Initial Touch is on. (Actually, that is related to a complaint that I have. When doing glissandos with Initial Touch on, many times you cannot hear the gliss. very well.) On thing that I have noticed, when the Initial Touch is enabled, it does not affect the "organ" voices much--it has more affect on the non-organ voices. Much of the time I play with more organ sounds and have the Initial Touch off.</p>

                    Please note that you can change the After Touch sensitivity. This is the second item in the Utility menu.</p>

                    I hope that helps.</p>

                    Allen
                    </p>
                    Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

                    YouTube Channel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Roland Atelier Question



                      Andy and Allen (Good name for an organist there!)</p>

                      </p>

                      Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. I suppose that the 'dropped' or weaker notes are due to my technique, especially in legato phrases when using symphonic sounds - I've tried to give more attack to passing notes etc - feels uncomfortable/at odds with the style but it seems to resolve the issue.</p>

                      </p>

                      Could I be entering the thinking that goes.... I know what I like and like what I know? Perseveranceand time, I suppose.</p>

                      </p>

                      Geoff</p>

                      Comment

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