I am about to wear the subject out no doubt, but I am wondering if Gulbransen made a church organ that had a fallboard with lock and key. A tech worked on a Gulbransen one time, and just brought parts into the shop instead of bringing in the whole organ. It was a console with 25 pedals, and was an all Tibia orflute organs. The church had asked him to put a lock and key on/off switch to prevent tapering from inept people, kids, etc.</P>
James</P>
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
They also made versions of both 2135 and 4218 series Presidents, with the name President Classic. All the 'goodies', like Reiteration, marimba, and auto-rhythm were stripped out and a locking, folding fall cover added.</P>
Andy</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.
Thanks a bushel. The President Classic would have been my choice or will be my choice if the opportunity should arise. Although they are all Tibia or Flute Organs, I still would have enough pitches to "make" other good solo tones to substitute for reeds. I do like the Clarinet that comes from flutes via 8' 2 2/3' and 1 3/5'</P>
I will be honest, I never did care for string stops on an organ. Myfavorite ones aresolo Cello 8', and a Violin at either 8' or 4'. I have the Symphonic strings on my Lowrey, but I honestly do not care for them at all. Maybe such as that stems from the fact that I played Hammond way to long when I was much younger as well as into middle age. I am more geared around the church organ, and usually maybe on very soft strings such as found on a pipe organbut arerarely heard by me are verydesirable too. I do like a String Celeste II type of sound as a very soft background. A soft Dulciana in the Great can be nicealso, but God forbid those stringy buzzy things that Baldwin called strings!!!! I literally hate them.[N]</P>
I am fascintaed by solo reeds, but will admit via Gulbransen Tibia/Flute Organsthe Oboe is lacking somewhat but can pass somewhat when needed. I do know other settings to make a decent Bassoon, Trombone or Tromba at 16' on these three, and Clarinet, Trumpet, 8' on both of these. I love the touch of the Gulbransen organs, and they are smooth such as Conn and Wurlitzer.</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
I do like a good Diapason sound, and it can be very close for a Diapason chorus with an all Flute organ, and noTremeloexceptperhaps the slow mode of a goodLeslie. To me the flutes are the background of any organ, but it seems I have been misinformed or I read somewhere that the strings were considered the background of a Theater Pipe Organ.I wishto have that clarified.</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
James</P>
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
Tibia is the foundation tone of the Cinema organ and the home electronic. Period. </P>
Everything else is a bonus! You can use them as solos or mix them with the tibias anyhow you like (within reason).</P>
That's why home organs with poor tibias don't really cut it. The foundation tone isn't right and everything you do is coloured by this. Think clarinetty flutes (cheap Thomas etc) or thin early Japanese organs for example. Get 'em right - Gulbransen Rialto etc - and the thing is a joy to play.</P>
Now when you come to the classical organ, your foundation tone is Principal/Diapason. I'll let the classical experts carry on from here! It's late over here in the UK and I've been fighting a crashing PC all evening. Just one darned song is somehow corrupted in Cubase and whatever I do, it screws itself up! Time for some of that medicinal Scottish refreshment, methinks!</P>
Andy</P>
It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.
Why, of coarse the Tibia is the foundation of the Theater Organ, and the Principal/Diapason of the church organ or classical. The vanilla plain flute sound of the early Hammond is what the public preferred over the older Wurlitzer reed models. I really like the old reed modelswith no vibrato for church music. I could tolerate their vibrato on a small amount for use in a church service. The Wurlitzer sound was not that well liked by John Q. Pulblic, and Hammond took off like a prairie fire regarding sales. After all they had the first spinet the "M" or Cinderalla model. Then, Wurlitzer did their Spinette.</P>
The Tibias on my Thomas are very "clarinety" as you mentioned. On the Baldwin they are the same unless combined, then they take on the brassy sound. There is even a buzz sound when the 4' Orchestral Flute is coupled to the upper manual via a 16' Coupler. I just never could understand why the buzz on an orchestral flute. It is very noticeable when the vibrato is on. Andy, can you or any of the other guys answer that for me?</P>
I, too, think the Gulbransen did an excellent job with their all Tiba/Flute organs. They did have it right for sure. The touch was so smooth compared to the key clicks of the Hammond. I just couldn't hardly tolerate those horrible key clicks on the church Hammond I played so much.</P>
As mentioned previously a few good solo stops from flute pitches can do an acceptable job for me.I didn't miss the string stops that much. I wish the guy who posted that list of stops for the Gulbransen with their tabs and/or drawbars would post it again.</P>
Andy, do you know what flute pitches Gulbransen used for their 8' Diapason on the lower manual? Their Violin Diapason 8' on the upper manual was flutes 8' 4' 2' 1'. Early Gulbransen's used 16' 8' 4'. for their preset stop labled Diapason on the upper manual of the spinet series. With slow tremelo or no tremelo I find this can be acceptable, but not quite the same as a good Diapason formed otherwise. I had nothing but flute tones on the Hammond. Strings were just not to be had or in a sense of reality they did not sound like strings regardless of the boast that strings could be had on the Hammond. They never did sound like strings to me, and missing them was of little or no importance to me.</P>
I do like the various tones found on the Wurlitzer Organs, so I will let that be for now since I have worn the topic out. </P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
James</P>
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
The orchestral flute was a rather different sound to tibia. Unlike the tibia which is pretty much fundamental plus a hint of odd harmonics, the orchestral flute seems to have some even harmonics that move it away from the sine wave type of sound. I guess that meant adding some buzz.</P>
As for Diapason, you can start to build this with flute pitches. On a Hammond, it would be something like 00 8654 332, so you're basically looking at 8,4, 2 2/3 and 2. Within the organ, they could no doubt adjust the level of each pitch as required.</P>
Andy</P>
It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.
I am wondering if Gulbransen made a church organ that had a fallboard with lock and key. [/quote]</P>
I'm not certain James, but I think the old 1109 console from the early '60's might fit the bill.</P>
Kam-pai,</P>
Ian</P>
[/quote]</P>
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread and I don't know how this slipped past me. </P>
crossyinoz -How do you know about the Gulbransen 1109?? That is the extremely rare Model F Church Organ. Have you seen one over in your part of the world?? Let me know please. I knew of two here in the USbut alas I can't track them down to their current owners. Oh - it did have a locking cover as well as a keyed on/off switch. </P>
Other Gulbransens that had the locking cover - that I am aware of - were the Model DTraditional (mine), thePresident Classic, as well as the Model STraditional (The S was a spinet version of the D), and I THINKthe Classic/Traditional version of the later 400 spinet. There might be others. The one James is talking about is probably the President Classic if it had 25 pedals.</P>
- jim</P>
Jimmy Williams
Hobbyist (organist/technician)
Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204
Yes, the President Classic is the one with white and black tabs only. I am not sure if it had d/bars, but may have. I think they did have a locking top. I know the Gulbransen 401 Spinet did have the locking top. We had one in our store.</P>
I don't remember the S models at all. I also do not remember the 1109 consoles. What were they called by name other than Gulbransen, Paradise, President, etc.?</P>
I had pics of the F model that jim sent to me or it was someone. I know the guy who had the service shop knew about these F models and said if they had taken off they would have been great organs.</P>
James</P>
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
I also do not remember the 1109 consoles. What were they called by name other than Gulbransen, Paradise, President, etc.?</P>
I had pics of the F model that jim sent to me or it was someone. I know the guy who had the service shop knew about these F models and said if they had taken off they would have been great organs.</P>
[/quote]</P>
Hi James. The only "nickname" the 1109 had, assording to the literature I have, is just "the church organ" by Gulbransen. I really wish I had more pictures other than the five I do have. I really would have liked to see the Leslie 200 and 201 cabinets that were required to be used with it. That particular organ in the photos was in an abbey in West Virginia - I had since contacted them and the organ was long gone - apparently someone traded them an old Baldwin for it. </P>
I have a photo of a Model S; sorry I have not updated my site in ages. The one I would really like to see is the Model CP. It's like my D but with a piano, 4 separate channels of sound instead of two, and had no internal speakers. I only have its proprietary Leslie 204 cabinet that I cobbled to my D (at least I do have that - I only wish the stock amp/junction box were still there instead of my replacement parts...). Neither you norI are likely to ever see a Model CP organ ....</P>
- jim</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
Jimmy Williams
Hobbyist (organist/technician)
Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204
crossyinoz -How do you know about the Gulbransen 1109?? That is the extremely rare Model F Church Organ. Have you seen one over in your part of the world?? Let me know please. I knew of two here in the USbut alas I can't track them down to their current owners. Oh - it did have a locking cover as well as a keyed on/off switch. [/quote]</P>
G'day Jim,</P>
I had access to a bit of Gully history when working for the Australian distributor, a relationship that ended with the break-up of CBS Musical instruments, but not before we had to suffer the notoriously unreliable Equinoxes, instruments that we weren't game to market outside the big metropolitan cities, hence my knowledge of the existence of model 1109.</P>
Don't know of an example here, but I do know that as Gully's only serious attempt at a church instrument it wasn't exactly a rip-roaring success. And yes, it does have a locking top.</P>
In fact the only Gullys I'm aware of with locking tops are.........</P>
<UL>
<LI>1109 - Model F, 1961</LI>
<LI>1133 - Model D classical, 1965</LI>
<LI>2135 - President Classic,1970</LI>
<LI>4217 - President Classic,1972</LI>
<LI>401 - Chapel Spinet,1978</LI>[/list]
My D classicalis a model 1134, not 1133. It does have the locking cover but Ican't use it because I have the SAR unit on top.</P>
The Model F was a flop. Only 19 were ever made so that's why I was surprised you ever heard of it - especially down there. Too bad because it was a verysophisticated organ. There were no dividers at all - it only had individual oscillator coils for each note. But it was not a tibia organ either. There were separate voiding networks for flute/diapason/strings/reeds all using those individual coils. Each manual had its own separate oscillator set. The pedal oscillator coils were huge - it did not use the resultant method that all the flute-only TIO Gulbransens used. According to George Reynertson it was very expensive to manufacture and probably couldn't compete against Rodgers, Allen, etc. If you haven't seen them already, the 5 photos I have are here:</P>
I have the 4-sheet literature for it as well. It shows very unclear illustrations of the Leslie 200 and 201 cabinets - they don't look anything like standard Leslies either. The manual voices each had their own 201 cabinet. They were split isomonically and then recombined in various phase combinations4 ways, and apparently came close to a pipe organ type of sound. There was also a rotor channel for the flutes. The 200 pedal cabinet was just a standard 40-watt stationary Leslie amp with a 15" speaker - no rotors.</P>
I would guess to put the Model CP on your list or Gulbransens with locking covers - since it was basically a D with a piano and external cabinets, I would think the cabinet design was identical. Who knows though ... I have still never seen one! I think only 20 of those were made.</P>
- jim</P>
Jimmy Williams
Hobbyist (organist/technician)
Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204
Oh ... I don't know where you got the model numbers from, but if it was off Jan Girardot's organ list, on some old revisions the CP was listed incorrectly as having 13 pedals, and the D listed as having 25. Both the D and CP had 32 pedals (AGO).
Jimmy Williams
Hobbyist (organist/technician)
Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204
Looking for a Gulbansen Pacemaker 1011L Service manual in PDF someone could send me. It the church organ in a small country church. Any help wool be deeply appreciated.
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