Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A tacit admission that Wersi OAX punters are still basically beta testers?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A tacit admission that Wersi OAX punters are still basically beta testers?

    For folks that are having issues with OAX not working as expected - They (Wersi) are interested and would like to improve OAX.

  • #2
    Every manufacture provides a contact to report bugs found and any features that owners (Or prospective owners) would like to have. (This has been common for decades) Go on to any forum for any manufacture and you will find plenty of bugs and features users have reported.

    Bill

    Comment


    • #3
      Strangely, I don’t seem to recall Roland ever saying “Hey, we know we’ve been selling this prototype Atelier thing for over six years now, but help us get it fixed, will you?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Similarly, I don’t recall Roland or anyone other than Wersi or Bohm releasing numerous major functionality updates each and every year - and they are both still here. In my experience OAX has been very stable for the past two or three years, and they encourage customers to have some input into what they want to see next on the development roadmap. The releases are very good and I certainly don’t feel like a beta tester - just as I don’t feel like a beta tester with my Windows PC’s, my iPad, my iPhone, my TV’s or my car that each get very frequent software updates - most of which I never see any direct benefit from.

        In reality, we are all beta testers for every electronic product we own.
        Current Organ: Wersi Sonic OAX800
        Previous Organs: Wersi Verona, Wersi Beta DX401, Yamaha FE-70, Yamaha B-75N
        Previous Other: Wersi MAX-1, Wersi OX7, Korg N5, Yamaha DX27

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Markr View Post
          The releases are very good and I certainly don’t feel like a beta tester...
          You want to read what Billy has to say about V2.0. Definitely a stark difference of opinion there.

          Comment


          • #6
            There is NO Software without bugs. That‘s what I can say as a SW developer... Also my Roland AT500 has an obvious bug: When switching it on the „vintage organ“ button is active (LED is on). To switch it off you need to press it TWICE! Very annoying if you forget that when you play your first song and you want to switch off the vintage organ sound during playing to use some orchestral instruments alone.

            It think that Roland didn‘t bother to ask the customers for proposals what to improve .. since they decided to stop further development and producing organs. I guess that is not what Wersi is planning.
            Playing Hammond Aurora Classic, Technics GA3, Roland G800 & AT500.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello,

              Sorry, but what is wrong about, when a small manufacture - and one of the few ones that has dedicated themselves to manufacture such a nice product as organs - seek the dialogue with their users to improve existing things and invest their fairly limited resources on developments corresponding to their users?

              In my eyes that is very appreciated and something that larger manufacturers could learn from.

              After I have been playing Yamaha electones for a lifetime including STAGEA, I took the step to an OAX800 for nearly 2 years ago. There might me „Wersi veterans“, that claim OAX 2.0 is sounding poor. The most of them don’t own an OAX and judge based on YouTube videos they play on their mobile phone. And of course there exits those, that claim organs are to expensive and gives to less value for money. To be honest - ever thought about how weak their basis for the ongoing, and never changing complaints is?

              As user of a Wersi OAX I can say, that I have been extremely satisfied with my Instrument for two years now. It is not more a beta-test than Yamaha gives with a Genos or Korg with their Pa-series (own both and use them for more than 50 gigs per year). I have had Roland Keys in the past as well, and it was a horrible experience in terms of bugs and getting these issues solved (G1000 and G70) - even in direct communication with the arranger division in Italy.

              Wersi offer a direct dialogue with their users in a way, that no other manufacture does. And they react on the input they get in every update. By the way - have had not a single crash or freeze with my OAX800 in spite of digging deep into editing, play it for many hours and even use it for gigs at bigger venues.

              If you consider the call for input from Wersi as a „tacit admission“...fine. I can tell you, that there meanwhile are many of happy OAX users, and that this open dialogue is much appreciated.

              As said - I was never a fan of Wersi but comes from the electone world. As they don’t support our enthusiasm in Europe and not show any kind of willingness, I am extremely happy, that we still have the opportunity to play an outstanding instrument like Wersi OAX - and even to have influence on the development of the system.

              greetings,
              Christian

              Comment


              • #8
                Ah, now that you mention it... When I bought a Roland G800 keyboard some 20 years ago it had to be replaced after about 2 months due to buggy SW. During playing of some styles the system hang for some 10th of a second. The 2nd system with a newer SW worked well, and still works today.
                Playing Hammond Aurora Classic, Technics GA3, Roland G800 & AT500.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OAX (Open Art Extended) is an expansion of the original OAS, (Open Art System) and while it looks a lot different it has many of the same features that have just been expanded, however even after 6 yrs. of updates it still falls way short of the number of features that are available on OAS.

                  The sound engine used in OAX was first introduced in 2005 with OAS7; however it was just licensed and could not really be modified, with OAX V2.00 the sound engine had been purchased by Wersi and the sound system was reprogrammed, unfortunately the flexibility and quality of sound (In my opinion with over 40 yrs. of Wersi use experience) is not as good as pre OAX V2.00 instruments, as demoed by top Wersi Artists. (Just compare before and after)

                  The link provided on the the Wersiclub USA site to report bugs and suggestions, has been in the back of the OAX manual for years, so is not new. As to whether they listen to what users want, then very little evidence supports this, as the same complaints keep appearing after many years of updates. (Questionable features (And modification of features) have however been added)

                  The list I posted on the Wersiclub USA site http://wersiclubusa.com/oax/what-would-you-change/
                  should have been available by now, (6 yrs. is a long time when the base is already there) however even this list does include everything that is missing from OAX compared to OAS.

                  For me personally, until they improve (And get back to what the Wersi name stood for) I would not purchase a post V2.00 Wersi instrument. (It will be interesting to see what the upcoming V2.7 software update brings
                  to the table)

                  Bill
                  Last edited by abacus; 06-08-2020, 11:12 AM. Reason: Added link

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello Bill,

                    Sorry, but that’s not really correct what you are writing. My OAX 800 was actually a OAS 7.46 before I upgraded it 2 years ago. OAX is definitive way more flexible that OAS and the sound quality is much improved vs. OAS. Your comparisons based on the YouTube Clips is far away from the reality I experience via my T5100 cabinets or my Fohhn Xperience 4 PA.

                    1. Please explain what flexibility in your opinion went lost after v.2.00. I notice only huge improvements in possibilities to tweak sound, effects and playability both vs. OAS 7.46 and OAX pre 2.00. I would never again like to miss the advantages of OAX vs. OAS such as

                    - 16 live parts
                    - much improved and more comprehensive Total Preset system
                    - the seamless usage of Genos styles including RevoDrums and the more realistic strumming guitar mode
                    - practically unlimited RAM for loading huge sounds into the memory of OAX
                    - faster user interface where you per drag & drop can copy a voice including all Settings to the manual you want it - - the free definition of key-zones for each of the up to 16 live parts (No fixed splitpoints)
                    - possibility to save your music scores in a Total Preset
                    - the exzellent Chord sequencer
                    - Tons of new voices
                    - All OAS voices incl. the optional ones (I cannot notice any quality difference vs. OAS)

                    2. I can tell you, OAX sound quality is in real life and use extremely much better than OAS and pre 2.00. It begins with a no noice hardware Audioboard with a significant higher digital resolution and high quality AD converters vs. the outdated board in OAS. The sound from OAX is more crisp, more detailed and more defined and less harshy and muffed than OAS. If you i.e. compare the reverb effects between OAS and OAX you hear a significant difference (the resolution is simply higher). I own a Yamaha Montage and OAX is on the same level while OAS was in best case comparable with the converter in Tyros2.


                    I have seen your many earlier posts. You continue to compare the sound quality of recordings from i.e. Claudia Hirschfeld playing an OAS with wave backings from AlGee vs. her attempts to play OAX fully live. Yes, there is a significant difference...but it has nothing to do with OAS vs. OAX ....

                    Meanwhile there are not many OAS users left. The most from my network/community here in Germany have upgraded to OAX and are not disappointed. It’s of course fine if you personally still happy with your OAS, but we are meanwhile a quite big community of happy OAX owners.

                    Regards,
                    Christian

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have CDs of Claudia Hirschfeld playing OAS and have listend to her live playing OAX (Sept. 2018, don‘t know the version) some same songs. OAX live did sound a lot better than OAS on a studio CD.
                      Playing Hammond Aurora Classic, Technics GA3, Roland G800 & AT500.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Christian

                        I am regularly out listening to live music and bands (Or at least I was before the Lockdown) and this is what I base my comparisons on, I have also heard OAX played live and played it myself in the various update stages, and I can say that for me the overall pre V2.00 software sounds more realistic than post V2.00.

                        1. OAX is just an extended version of OAS, which means expansion of what was on OAS with new Visualisations.
                        While slightly different in some options and visual looks the Total Pre-sets of OAX are no different to OAS.
                        Check your controllers and you will find there are duplications in V2.00 plus reduced parameters in individual sound control.
                        If you have ever heard a Genos the Wersi conversions are not even close, (No conversion will ever sound like the original in full but the OAX version is about as far away as you can get) you are better off converting Genos to the T2 format (Which is natively supported by OAX) then revoicing and tweaking this for much better results.
                        Yes OAX now uses a 64bit system rather than the 32bit system of OAS as technology moves on, however the underlying system of OAX is still based on OAS.
                        Yes you have the new pro mode which you could only do using a separate Midi controller with OAS, but this feature could have been added in OAS if it had been updated to run on a 64bit system.
                        Yes the music scores is a new feature.
                        The chord sequencer has a similar layout to the Style Compose in the OAA, however it has been extended to include a more comprehensive feature and become its own thing.
                        New voices were added throughout the lifespan of OAS so you would expect it to continue with OAX
                        If you cannot hear a difference in the OAS voices on OAX then the audio system on OAX is no better than the audio system on OAS (Which is not correct) or your sound setup needs readjusting.

                        2. The audio boards in OAX are better than the EA boards in OAS (As you would expect being a more modern instrument) but it just shows up the less realistic voices that V2.00 comes with. The reverb is the same system as used on OAS, just expanded as it now runs on a 64bit system. (The sound engine used in OAX is the same as in OAS7 (And previously used in Steinberg’s Hypersonic VST) but now that Wersi own it, they have indeed modified it (Before V2.00 it was only licenced) but unfortunately not in a good way.
                        WOW! OAX V2.00 sounds bad because Claudia Hirschfeld can’t play live, really, is that the best you can come up with.
                        I cannot speak for your group, but outside that group many OAS owners have gone the route of adding a separate module/keyboard rather than upgrading to OAX, and others have also jumped ship to other manufactures. (You will also find many purchases of OAX V2.00 have also added modules/keyboards to get round the lacklustre V2.00 update) That you are happy with your instrument is great, as each has their own opinion of what sounds best. (Up until V2.00 there was nothing out there that would make me move from Wersi, however no more)
                        If you have owned an OAS instrument you will know that there are still many features that are on OAS that have still not appeared on OAX in either original or extended form. (6 yrs. is a long time to still have less than what was available before)
                        Whether you like it or not, OAX is an extension of OAS, which is probably the reason Wersi called it OAX (Open Art Extended) so as not to hide anything, (I wish more manufactures were that honest) and all the features could have been added to OAS if it had been converted to a 64bit system, but there comes a time when it is easier to design a new interface that makes best use of new hardware/software expanded technology. (Just like Wersi did when they moved from OAS 4 to OAS 5)
                        BTW: The style system in OAX is also based on the OAA introduced in OAS, but with a better interface, alas it has less features then the OAA in OAS.
                        Anyway V2.7 is due soon so we will have to see what this brings and whether it has fixed any of the long term complaints.


                        Regards

                        Bill

                        Comment


                        • Puddleduck
                          Puddleduck commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Wow. I don't currently have a Wersi, but may do soon to have alongside my Roland AT800AE/UP.
                          I don't pretend to understand what abacus has said above, but it is obvious that he has a very good knowledge of the wersi instruments.
                          It is also obvious that seamster has a "down" on Wersi, but I have yet to understand why.

                          Please keep up the discussion as I may well learn something important.

                      • #13
                        My post above seems to have been typed in the wrong box. Sorry.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Puddleduck View Post
                          My post above seems to have been typed in the wrong box. Sorry.
                          HI Puddleduck

                          The Wersi is a different kettle of fish to the Roland, so also have a look at Ringway and Bohm Organs.
                          If you decide to go with the Wersi, I recommend you stick to Easy mode for a couple of weeks or so as this is closer to the Roland and should make the transition easier. (Too many users jump straight into Pro mode and get totally confused as its feature set is way beyond the normal organ (The Bohm Sempra range although currently more feature rich than Wersi OAX, has an OS more like an arranger keyboard so is easier to get into) but if you start off steady you will soon get the hang of it and wonder why other manufactures don’t do the same)
                          The Wersiclub USA YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1O...zYPA/playlists has many videos showing how things work, and come from a perspective of not knowing the OAX system.
                          Whatever you go for, have fun.

                          Bill

                          Comment


                          • Puddleduck
                            Puddleduck commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Thanks for the helpful hints. I was also thinking of the Bohm Sempra; the Ringway pricing is good, but I have yet to hear live. Anyone in UK selling Wersi or Bohm please pm me.

                        • #15
                          Hi Bill,

                          When I read your long explanation it becomes very clear you have never worked with OAX, as several point are simply not correct. I played OAS two years and have been playing OAX for two years now. And I own a Genos I use on stage 55-60 times per year with my band.

                          „OAX is just an extended version of OAS“
                          => The complete UI is totally different vs. OAS and much more fast and logical to work with on daily basis.

                          „If you have ever heard a Genos the Wersi conversions are not even close“
                          => I have meanwhile converted around 250 Genos styles to my OAX. In direct comparison they sound different, but much better than any T2 format style. The conversion works much better in OAX as it did in OAS (with the outdated T2 format). I have the direct comparison as I own both Genos and OAX.

                          “If you cannot hear a difference in the OAS voices on OAX then the audio system on OAX is no better than the audio system on OAS“
                          => I don’t use the Audiosystem in the organ. Instead I have TS5100 cabinets, a Fohhn Highend XperienceIV PA-System (14.000€) and Studio monitors from Genelec. OAX sound definitiv much more clear and dynamic, than my old OAS Scala did.

                          „The sound engine used in OAX is the same as in OAS7 (And previously used in Steinberg’s Hypersonic VST) but now that Wersi own it, they have indeed modified it but unfortunately not in a good way“
                          => As OAX User I totally disagree. Actually it was first with OAX that I was convinced to go from OAS to OAX. The legacy OAS voices sounds as the did in OAS, just with a more differented frequency range (less muffy). Actually I use around 80-100% of new added OAX voices in my presets.

                          „If you have owned an OAS instrument you will know that there are still many features that are on OAS that have still not appeared on OAX in either original or extended form“
                          => Which ones are concrete missing in 2.60? OAX offers much more features than OAS ever did (my OAS was 7.46).

                          „The style system in OAX is also based on the OAA introduced in OAS, but with a better interface, alas it has less features then the OAA in OAS.“
                          => You are obviously not familiar with OAA in OAX. It comes with the same features as in OAS plus various new ones (Midi2style / style2midi in a very easy way, editing of real drums, style assembly function similar to Genos etc.). It is actually more powerful than the Genos onbord style editor.

                          „Whether you like it or not, OAX is an extension of OAS“
                          -> I like that a lot. It’s a good basis and they have really understood to renew it in a way, that only brings advantages. The same concept as Korg does with their Pa-series and Yamaha with their electones and PSR (Tyros/Genos). New updated hardware, better usability etc. I.E. The OS of Genos is build on the principle Yamaha introduced with PSR-6000 more than 20 years ago.

                          BTW I don’t use my Genos, Montage or Kronos Keyboards connected to my OAX800. It has everything I need to enjoy playing an organ and I know actually also OAX users, that sold their midi modules after they shifted away from OAS.

                          Greets,
                          Chris

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X