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A tacit admission that Wersi OAX punters are still basically beta testers?

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  • abacus
    replied
    With the controversy regarding installing Wersi OAX V2.70 in the above posts, a video has been uploaded by IMMusic that shows how easy it actually is. (Total time should take no more than 5-10mins, excluding download time)

    Enjoy

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • auronoxe
    commented on 's reply
    At least no one wants to burn these Wersis with fire (Which by the way is a good advice for many (not all!) old organs)

  • musicmaker84
    commented on 's reply
    There is a golden rule since the internet has been conceived: don't feed the troll!

  • ChrisHH
    replied
    Originally posted by seamaster View Post

    That’s what they said six years ago!

    Always the same pessimism from always criticizing non OAX users.
    Funny that none of us with OAX instruments share that impression with you. The reason is: We enjoy our instruments and play music instead of repeating this same „old tune“ in internetforums

    Leave a comment:


  • seamaster
    replied
    Originally posted by foxtrotter View Post

    Just a minor hiccup. All working perfectly now.
    That’s what they said six years ago!

    Leave a comment:


  • foxtrotter
    replied
    Originally posted by seamaster View Post
    Following the comments here with interest:

    http://wersiclubusa.com/oax/oax-2-7-is-here/
    Just a minor hiccup. All working perfectly now.

    Leave a comment:


  • seamaster
    replied
    Following the comments here with interest:

    http://wersiclubusa.com/oax/oax-2-7-is-here/

    Leave a comment:


  • abacus
    replied
    Hi Christian

    (The complete UI is totally different vs. OAS and much more fast and logical to work with on daily basis)
    Naturally it is a newer instrument with a bigger screen and resolution, however the base (Heart) of both systems is the same, only the visuals have changed and using the latest hardware and software OS (Windows 64bit) it has become faster? (Just like a computer in 2020 is faster than one from 2010)

    (I have meanwhile converted around 250 Genos styles to my OAX. In direct comparison they sound different, but much better than any T2 format style. The conversion works much better in OAX as it did in OAS (with the outdated T2 format). I have the direct comparison as I own both Genos and OAX)
    I have compared the OAX conversion to the Genos and to my ears OAX falls well short, (Conversion to T2 format and then revoicing and tweaking the style gives a much more realistic sound to my ears) however if you are happy with it that’s fine, everyone is different.

    (As OAX User I totally disagree. Actually it was first with OAX that I was convinced to go from OAS to OAX. The legacy OAS voices sounds as the did in OAS, just with a more differented frequency range (less muffy). Actually I use around 80-100% of new added OAX voices in my preset).
    As you said in your previous post the audio board in OAX is better, therefore the included OAS voices should sound better, (Which they do) but in your previous post you say you cannot hear any difference between them, but now you say you do.
    To my (And others) ears, comparing the post V2.00 sounds to real instruments and players, a lot of them sound inferior to Pre V2.00 voices. (I always compare them to real live instruments and players)

    Which ones are concrete missing in 2.60? OAX offers much more features than OAS ever did (my OAS was 7.46).
    The OAS manuals can still be downloaded here https://www.wersi-hochrhein.com/downloads_2.html if you wish to compare. NOTE: There are 9 separate manuals for the Scala, (Scala, Programmierhandbuch, Sound Factory, OpenArtArranger, Rhythm Designer, Drum Editor and Multi Record) some were optional but included as standard on later models, also the OAA had a further update (Not shown in the German Manual) that allowed you to create and edit a pattern on the instrument itself, as well as being able to easily manipulate the tracks.

    (You are obviously not familiar with OAA in OAX. It comes with the same features as in OAS plus various new ones (Midi2style / style2midi in a very easy way, editing of real drums, style assembly function similar to Genos etc.). It is actually more powerful than the Genos onbord style editor)
    Check the OAS, OAA manual above to see the differences and also note the update.
    The following I cannot find in OAX even though you say they are there.
    Style2Midi & Midi2style (Except using external DAW and Importing/Exporting) and certainly nothing like the Midi2style system in the Korg PA4x or EMC Style Works.
    New Real drums can be added to OAS, OAA just like they can with OAX, OAA

    (BTW I don’t use my Genos, Montage or Kronos Keyboards connected to my OAX800. It has everything I need to enjoy playing an organ and I know actually also OAX users, that sold their midi modules after they shifted away from OAS)
    And I know plenty of people that didn’t go either the OAX route or get rid of there keyboard/modules, so it still comes down to personal choice.

    Let’s hope V2.7 will fill some of the gaps, as currently OAX falls short of the competition.

    Regards

    Bill

    Update:

    Have found a later manual for the Open Art Arranger which includes all the new features, (English) and can be downloaded from here https://app.box.com/s/6pt1t0er3awp6rhy4seqvpvx58p3gfhl

    Regards

    Bill


    Last edited by abacus; 06-13-2020, 02:49 AM. Reason: Added new Link

    Leave a comment:


  • ChrisHH
    replied
    Hi Bill,

    When I read your long explanation it becomes very clear you have never worked with OAX, as several point are simply not correct. I played OAS two years and have been playing OAX for two years now. And I own a Genos I use on stage 55-60 times per year with my band.

    „OAX is just an extended version of OAS“
    => The complete UI is totally different vs. OAS and much more fast and logical to work with on daily basis.

    „If you have ever heard a Genos the Wersi conversions are not even close“
    => I have meanwhile converted around 250 Genos styles to my OAX. In direct comparison they sound different, but much better than any T2 format style. The conversion works much better in OAX as it did in OAS (with the outdated T2 format). I have the direct comparison as I own both Genos and OAX.

    “If you cannot hear a difference in the OAS voices on OAX then the audio system on OAX is no better than the audio system on OAS“
    => I don’t use the Audiosystem in the organ. Instead I have TS5100 cabinets, a Fohhn Highend XperienceIV PA-System (14.000€) and Studio monitors from Genelec. OAX sound definitiv much more clear and dynamic, than my old OAS Scala did.

    „The sound engine used in OAX is the same as in OAS7 (And previously used in Steinberg’s Hypersonic VST) but now that Wersi own it, they have indeed modified it but unfortunately not in a good way“
    => As OAX User I totally disagree. Actually it was first with OAX that I was convinced to go from OAS to OAX. The legacy OAS voices sounds as the did in OAS, just with a more differented frequency range (less muffy). Actually I use around 80-100% of new added OAX voices in my presets.

    „If you have owned an OAS instrument you will know that there are still many features that are on OAS that have still not appeared on OAX in either original or extended form“
    => Which ones are concrete missing in 2.60? OAX offers much more features than OAS ever did (my OAS was 7.46).

    „The style system in OAX is also based on the OAA introduced in OAS, but with a better interface, alas it has less features then the OAA in OAS.“
    => You are obviously not familiar with OAA in OAX. It comes with the same features as in OAS plus various new ones (Midi2style / style2midi in a very easy way, editing of real drums, style assembly function similar to Genos etc.). It is actually more powerful than the Genos onbord style editor.

    „Whether you like it or not, OAX is an extension of OAS“
    -> I like that a lot. It’s a good basis and they have really understood to renew it in a way, that only brings advantages. The same concept as Korg does with their Pa-series and Yamaha with their electones and PSR (Tyros/Genos). New updated hardware, better usability etc. I.E. The OS of Genos is build on the principle Yamaha introduced with PSR-6000 more than 20 years ago.

    BTW I don’t use my Genos, Montage or Kronos Keyboards connected to my OAX800. It has everything I need to enjoy playing an organ and I know actually also OAX users, that sold their midi modules after they shifted away from OAS.

    Greets,
    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Puddleduck
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the helpful hints. I was also thinking of the Bohm Sempra; the Ringway pricing is good, but I have yet to hear live. Anyone in UK selling Wersi or Bohm please pm me.

  • abacus
    replied
    Originally posted by Puddleduck View Post
    My post above seems to have been typed in the wrong box. Sorry.
    HI Puddleduck

    The Wersi is a different kettle of fish to the Roland, so also have a look at Ringway and Bohm Organs.
    If you decide to go with the Wersi, I recommend you stick to Easy mode for a couple of weeks or so as this is closer to the Roland and should make the transition easier. (Too many users jump straight into Pro mode and get totally confused as its feature set is way beyond the normal organ (The Bohm Sempra range although currently more feature rich than Wersi OAX, has an OS more like an arranger keyboard so is easier to get into) but if you start off steady you will soon get the hang of it and wonder why other manufactures don’t do the same)
    The Wersiclub USA YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1O...zYPA/playlists has many videos showing how things work, and come from a perspective of not knowing the OAX system.
    Whatever you go for, have fun.

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Puddleduck
    replied
    My post above seems to have been typed in the wrong box. Sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puddleduck
    commented on 's reply
    Wow. I don't currently have a Wersi, but may do soon to have alongside my Roland AT800AE/UP.
    I don't pretend to understand what abacus has said above, but it is obvious that he has a very good knowledge of the wersi instruments.
    It is also obvious that seamster has a "down" on Wersi, but I have yet to understand why.

    Please keep up the discussion as I may well learn something important.

  • abacus
    replied
    Hi Christian

    I am regularly out listening to live music and bands (Or at least I was before the Lockdown) and this is what I base my comparisons on, I have also heard OAX played live and played it myself in the various update stages, and I can say that for me the overall pre V2.00 software sounds more realistic than post V2.00.

    1. OAX is just an extended version of OAS, which means expansion of what was on OAS with new Visualisations.
    While slightly different in some options and visual looks the Total Pre-sets of OAX are no different to OAS.
    Check your controllers and you will find there are duplications in V2.00 plus reduced parameters in individual sound control.
    If you have ever heard a Genos the Wersi conversions are not even close, (No conversion will ever sound like the original in full but the OAX version is about as far away as you can get) you are better off converting Genos to the T2 format (Which is natively supported by OAX) then revoicing and tweaking this for much better results.
    Yes OAX now uses a 64bit system rather than the 32bit system of OAS as technology moves on, however the underlying system of OAX is still based on OAS.
    Yes you have the new pro mode which you could only do using a separate Midi controller with OAS, but this feature could have been added in OAS if it had been updated to run on a 64bit system.
    Yes the music scores is a new feature.
    The chord sequencer has a similar layout to the Style Compose in the OAA, however it has been extended to include a more comprehensive feature and become its own thing.
    New voices were added throughout the lifespan of OAS so you would expect it to continue with OAX
    If you cannot hear a difference in the OAS voices on OAX then the audio system on OAX is no better than the audio system on OAS (Which is not correct) or your sound setup needs readjusting.

    2. The audio boards in OAX are better than the EA boards in OAS (As you would expect being a more modern instrument) but it just shows up the less realistic voices that V2.00 comes with. The reverb is the same system as used on OAS, just expanded as it now runs on a 64bit system. (The sound engine used in OAX is the same as in OAS7 (And previously used in Steinberg’s Hypersonic VST) but now that Wersi own it, they have indeed modified it (Before V2.00 it was only licenced) but unfortunately not in a good way.
    WOW! OAX V2.00 sounds bad because Claudia Hirschfeld can’t play live, really, is that the best you can come up with.
    I cannot speak for your group, but outside that group many OAS owners have gone the route of adding a separate module/keyboard rather than upgrading to OAX, and others have also jumped ship to other manufactures. (You will also find many purchases of OAX V2.00 have also added modules/keyboards to get round the lacklustre V2.00 update) That you are happy with your instrument is great, as each has their own opinion of what sounds best. (Up until V2.00 there was nothing out there that would make me move from Wersi, however no more)
    If you have owned an OAS instrument you will know that there are still many features that are on OAS that have still not appeared on OAX in either original or extended form. (6 yrs. is a long time to still have less than what was available before)
    Whether you like it or not, OAX is an extension of OAS, which is probably the reason Wersi called it OAX (Open Art Extended) so as not to hide anything, (I wish more manufactures were that honest) and all the features could have been added to OAS if it had been converted to a 64bit system, but there comes a time when it is easier to design a new interface that makes best use of new hardware/software expanded technology. (Just like Wersi did when they moved from OAS 4 to OAS 5)
    BTW: The style system in OAX is also based on the OAA introduced in OAS, but with a better interface, alas it has less features then the OAA in OAS.
    Anyway V2.7 is due soon so we will have to see what this brings and whether it has fixed any of the long term complaints.


    Regards

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • auronoxe
    replied
    I have CDs of Claudia Hirschfeld playing OAS and have listend to her live playing OAX (Sept. 2018, don‘t know the version) some same songs. OAX live did sound a lot better than OAS on a studio CD.

    Leave a comment:

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