Summer Recess Boredom - Why Are HOs out, but Pianos Seem to Be Still Trendy?

[musicmaker84]

Genuine question. It blows my mind. The ever so rich offerings in pianos and digitals, plus teachers who teach piano full time for a living! When and where and how did the home organ crowd mess up the narrative, the home organ being the far "funner" and superior instrument?

[musicmaker84]

On a side note, decided to go through Kenneth Baker's TCOP for the first time ever in my life, and I have to say, his method is a lot more fun than the equivalent American or German methods of their time.

To all the critics saying his choice of F6s and C6s from the very beginning are questionable, well, his arrangements make even a beginner sound pretty competent from the second book on?

Well, if you think I am nuts for starting TCOP this late in my career, again, summer recess boredom due to Covid is taking its toll.

[FourEyes]

Well off the top of my head and bearing in mind it is 1.30am - the word organ started to put people off as they thought they were only for churches - then Yamaha who had a network of training schools around the country decided that it either wasn't cool or that they didn't have the room (or interest) in teaching people so most closed down - think there are a couple left but none in London where I am - main dealer in London said no room for that sort of thing - then of course Yamaha pulled the plug on importing organs to the UK as it became 'too expensive' and all around other manufacturers were faced with dropping sales. Couple of years back I wanted to find a Genos dealer that would teach me how to use and play it - even the Yamaha staff at one of the UK events couldn't offer any help for a local teacher only a full on classical teacher about 30 miles away.....but they did know of piano teachers without experience of the Genos!! Personally think many of the 'dealers' are now only interested in 'selling boxes' but there you go - what do I know!! All the best.

[Silken Path]

I remember seeing the music shops in the mall - Columbus Square and South Dekalb - in the 60s and70s. There'd be somebody playing an organ inviting folks in. That was the hay day of home organs. Somebody here on the forum said that the advent of the "sustain" feature led to record sales for all the organ manufacturers in the 70s. Until I got one years later, if I thought of them, if I thought of them at all, by remembering the old German accented gent from North Dakota dancing with the grandmothers and house wives while a huge "Geritol" sign floated overhead. (It was for "iron poor blood.")

[toodles]

I personally think that the "easy play" features became part of the problem for home organs--if you can play the organ with just two fingers--one for melody and one for chord & bass, the organ furnishing everything else--the sound became boring if you didn't learn how to play beyond that.

[RogerM]

the sound became boring if you didn't learn how to play beyond that.

And with a reduced sense of achievement, I suggest.

[abacus]

Most are big, bulky, look like Granny's old sideboard and are called an Organ, the easy play features were a further nail in the coffin (As mentioned above) as why buy an organ when you could buy a keyboard with all the same features and ware not big, bulky, or called an Organ, looked modern (Synth like) as well as being able to be stored in the cupboard when not in use.

It is even worse these days as people expect to press a button (Or say Alexa etc.) and have everything done for them, with the thought of having to put some effort in to achieve something a complete nonstarter.

Bill

[quantum]

The path for future growth as a musician may also be a factor. On piano, classical organ and theatre organ, one has a direction one can aspire to. If a player decides they want more out of music than just playing simple tunes and chords, those instruments have the repertoire and teaching infrastructure to support it. And as suggested above, it allows a person to go further on an instrument with the sense of personal achievement that the musician has accomplished something, rather than having the instrument make the person sound good.

It is far more common to come across a piano than a home organ. There is more opportunity to play an instrument that is not in your home, more opportunity to make and share music. You can take the music you play at home, and play it at a friends home, a street piano, a concert hall. More options to make music.

[jbird604]

I think it's instructive to note that a number of items appeared on the market that directly or indirectly competed for the money people had been spending on easy-play home organs, and also competing for the time they had spent on the bench. In the late 70's to early 80's (when the home organ market basically vanished) we saw the widespread introduction and adoption of:

CD players -- making super hi-fi music finally available to everyone at low cost, sounds just as good as a "real organ."
Video game consoles -- using the same two fingers needed to play "home organ" you could have even more fun
Computers -- all that time one had whiled away at the Kimball could be spent playing computer games or learning software
Portable keyboards -- basically could do everything an "organ" could do and more in a much neater package
Digital pianos -- combined the functionality of a toy keyboard and a fairly realistic piano sound all in one unit
Video recorders -- now you could waste even MORE time in front of the TV watching stuff you otherwise would've missed

Not to mention the explosion in extra-curricular activities for school-age kids. If you were raising kids in the 80's and 90's, as we were, you may know that suddenly EVERYBODY was playing soccer, basketball, kiddie football almost non-stop throughout the school year and even in the summer. Kids no longer seemed to have any time at all to play music. Thus not only did the home organ go the way of the dodo, the piano fell rapidly in sales and popularity. Fifty or sixty years ago it seemed that lots of kids were taking piano lessons, at least for a few years in grade school. Nowadays, not so much.

And finally, the ubiquitous Smart Phone -- you now do not need a CD player (play your Amazon music on the phone or Alexa), video games (use your phone), a computer (use your phone), a keyboard or piano (there's an app on your phone), or a video recorder (everything you ever heard of is now available by streaming).

The only hope for organs to return to the home is for people to rediscover the various "authentic" kinds of organ playing -- classical or church style, theater style, Hammond/pop style, etc. I doubt that the one-finger-chord style of playing will come back into vogue, barring some cataclysmic world event.

Pianos have fared better for several reasons. (1) A piano lasts longer. While the average "toy" organ was meant to last 5 years and may have lasted for 20, any decent piano should last 50 to 100 years, so the ones bought in the 60's/70's heyday are still around somewhere. (2) The piano has a very long history, thus a very large repertoire from which to draw, and so interests a far wider group of musicians than the home organ. The smallest and cheapest of the home organs (the "toy" organs) really couldn't play much of anything except the play-by-numbers or color-coded fun books that came with them. Of course the better home organs could also double as "real organs" and thus play regular organ music, pop, theater, or classical in a pinch.

[ArthurCambronne]

Hot take, but I think it's down to a combination of factors, most notably that church attendance is way down in the US and Europe. Like way, way, way down from just my father's time, say nothing of my Grandfather's. so, as mentioned above, there is less familiarity and comfort.

But also, a home organ is quite expensive. Starting prices for a new organ (like you'd find in the mall or at Eatons department store) are higher than many small and even medium sized cars. With increasing economic stratification of the last 30+ years now at levels not seen since the 1920's, and most families having two working parents just to pay the bills, we just don't have an economy that supports a broad ecosystem (dealers, technicians, teachers, etc.) for home organs. That ecosystem exists now only for churches and church musicians (mostly).

Pianos have similar prolems (i.e., the ecosystem is breaking down and far fewer children are taking lessons), but pianos tend to last longer than organs, and folks continue to own and play pianos long after they are worn out or in need of a rebuild, but that's not an option with an Organ. The electronics in an organ just stop working at some point, and organs are not nearly as commonly available at this point, having been junked for decades.

As an aside, technology has progressed almost immeasurably on Organs in the last 30 years, and pianos are basically the same as they were 150 years ago (or more), so old organs actually sound old, too, while pianos don't sound dated, they sound like pianos, because at the end of the day, they are not imitations, they are the real thing (not intended as a knock on electronic organs, just a speculation). I think this leads to a higher percentage of available organs not finding homes, and thus being junked.

[myorgan]

Musicmaker84,

Thank you so much for defining the meaning of "HO" in the title of this thread: Summer Recess Boredom - Why Are HOs out, but Pianos Seem to Be Still Trendy? I couldn't imagine what you would have been referring to that would be appropriate with "HO"!

I think it's instructive to note that a number of items appeared on the market that directly or indirectly competed for the money people had been spending on easy-play home organs, and also competing for the time they had spent on the bench. In the late 70's to early 80's....

Not everyone had the disposable income for a $20,000-$40,000 organ to occasionally in one's home. Perhaps there are people who can afford the price of a new car to use occasionally in his/her living room, but most of us are certainly not of that ilk. Also, the generation who traditionally used organs (older people) were not the generation who took well to complicated means of extracting what an organ could/would do.

Also, in the '90s, a trend of miniaturization began with all electronic devices: Bag phone>cell phone; mainframe>personal computer>laptops; component stereo systems>boom boxes; video cameras>digital cameras; as well as record players>walkman players. After the turn of the century, singular devices began serving multiple functions-the cell phone is now your computer, calendar, mail service, gaming device, calculator, photo album, stereo system, tape measure, doctor & health guide, camera-both still & video, road atlas (arguably-as I was directed down a dirt road with grass in the middle!;-)), instrument tuner, Bible, and even wallet.

So what does an organ do for the price of a car when compared to the functioning of a $600 cell phone? MIDI and VPOs have helped, but instead of prices going down on organs as technology capability increases, home organ prices continue to rise to compensate for low sales figures, while digital pianos and cell phones continue to produce more value for less.

Then again, our society as a whole, has been gradually turning to an "entertain me" mentality vs. "what can I do to entertain myself and others?" The same is true of churches: People attend and get a performance vs. participating in the service. The same could be said for music concerts and sporting events. It's no longer a game or a concert-people expect more now (i.e. fireworks, pyrotechnics, etc.). It's as much about creating an "atmosphere" now as it is purchasing a product. Why else do you think these organs and pianos have many multi-colored lights?;-)

Home organs have come a long way from my Lowrey Heritage Deluxe (DSO-1) for a few hundred dollars in the 1960s, to the Lowrey Heritage sold in the tens of thousands in the past couple of decades.

Sorry, I tapped my inner John!O:-) I'll stop here.

Michael

[jbird604]

Your inner John surely thanks you for letting him out!

As you say, it surely is a drag on the home organ market that these things now carry price tags in the range of $20K to $100K. Back in the mid 70's when I first sold organs, there were little easy-play home organs that sold for under $500. About the same price as a decent console color TV back then. Nowadays they are priced like a luxury car. Little wonder they don't have broad appeal. (That and the grandma connection.)

Also, you're spot on about the "entertain me" attitude so prevalent in our culture, as opposed to "what can I do to entertain myself?"

If I thought it would do any good, I'd even be all in favor of bringing back the $500 fun machine organs in the mall stores. At least they called for SOME involvement in making your own music. But then, I'm not really sure whether a new breed of toy organs would be part of the solution or just another problem. It may be true to some extent that the toy organs helped kill the market for real organs and pianos.

[myorgan]

John,

I would only make one correction-overpriced toy organs helped kill the market for real organs and pianos.

Michael

[Silken Path]

There was a sales flyer in the bench of my 1975 Conn 624 Theater that showed a similar organ sitting on a gleaming city street with marquis lights behind it. The flyer had a dealer stamp and a hand-written "$5995." I'm not sure where it got off to, but if I can find it again, I'll scan it for my gallery.

[myorgan]

Have you ever run into something like a Magnus being used for a church? I've related the story before where I used an Estey (presumably) Field Organ for a church service. Fun times!

Michael

[Silken Path]

I have an acquaintance who is starting a little welcoming church locally. I bought a little Juno synth and two small Roland KC-100 amps to play there. The synth was $750 and the used amps were $100 each. I wanted something like a Dexibell, but the Juno pretends to be a church organ, a chapel organ, and a piano. The user just doesn't get to chose the stops. :)

I also have a little metal-cased Roland stage piano, and it's five years old now and still going strong. I've played it so much that the patterns on the keys have smudges from my fingers. It was $1300.

[jbird604]

I'd think a Juno or other synth would be a lot more acceptable for church than an old toy Thomas organ with nothing but three stops (all at 8' pitch) on the lower manual, and maybe six or seven "solo" stops on the upper, also all at 8' pitch. If those were real 8' pipe stops, or even decent 8' electronic stops, like the rather beautiful tones of an Allen Carousel analog, they might be tolerable. But 8 or 10 of the most wretched sounding "voices" that make a kazoo sound subtle -- I'd rather have nothing at all.

A reed organ, even a "toy" one by Magnus, would be better as well. At least the reed tones are real musical tones.

If you haven't heard one of those old monstrosities from the mall in 1977, you simply can't imagine how awful the sound is. The tones of an early Nintendo game console are just as pretty and just as appropriate for church as the grotesque noises generated by those old dogs. Some of them were tuned by cheap mini-pots and now won't even stay tuned, but clueless organ-grinders still intrude upon worship with this wretched howling and screeching.

[musicmaker84]

Well, what is better to kill some time than watching original footage from the Wersi Halsenbach show room. 1 hour and 12 minutes in a time capsule.