gulbransen transistor with in built leslie

[Guest]

i recently picked up a gulbransen transistorized model with what seems to be a single speed version of a leslie 125 built into the cabinet. the key action is the most peculiar of any keyboard i've ever seen and is quite awkward to play, is this worth selling or should i rip out the leslie for use with a hammond and scrap the rest?

[james]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



What is the model number?</P>


Is it a spinet or console organ?</P>


Are the stop tabs built into the lower cheek blocks or tongue tabs, rocker tabs, etc.?</P>


Let us know, someone on here might be able to give some good advice.</P>
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James</P>
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[jimmywilliams]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



Please don't condemn another one of these to the scrap heap [:(]. Please provide more info about the model number. If it says "transistor" on it ... thenif itis a console organ with 25 pedals it is most likely a Model E. If it is a spinet it is most likely some variant of a B, C, G, or H (or maybe a T-100 if it has a horseshoe stoprail), Does it have a tube amp/ps or solid date? Does it have push-button pistons? Does it only have one speaker (I;m assuming it does). Usually the model number is under the keyboard part of the cabinet (or maybe in the back with some models). </P>


Please give this organ a chance. Your choice of course ... What exactly is it about the organ that you do not care for? Is it malfunctioning in any way?</P>
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[Guest]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



turns out it is a g3a. anywho the key action is incredibly weird feeling, and the way that all of the harmonics (in what i'm assuming is a hammond-esque multi-contact system) are attacked is strange. the only thing i would desire in it is the leslie. its a single motor, single rotor 12 inch woofer type leslie, but still sounds quite nice, and i wouldn't mind adding a horn rotor and a crossover and using with one of my many hammond organs.</p>

if there is anyone in west michigan that's willing to offer a fair price thats at least worth the leslie and the amplifier, i'd be willing to sell. this put's the starting price at maybe a solid $200. i picked it up in hope to get more of a pipe organ like sound as an alternative to my 6 hammonds, but i was kind of disappointed .
</p>

[james]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



I am sure you found this organ to sound differently from any Hammond you have or have played anywhere. You just can NOT compare a Hammond to anything, it is just Hammond. However, I would think this organ is unique in that the fast Leslie speaker did provide a lush tremelo, and the sound was clear. I wish I had this organ, but actully would prefer the next model up the H3 because of the extra features this H3 has.</P>


Everything is Tibia/flute based here, and the tones other than the stops tabs with numerals are made from the flute pitches with the footage markings. For example, the Diapason, is 16' 8' 4', you can check these out and see how they are connected. I really don't know about the key action unless it has a touch that is mechanical since the coupling rods bring into play the various combinations stops, and maybe the others. Jim or Chris, we need your help here.</P>


This is a unique organ, and if it is playing properly I, too, urge you to keep it intact as it will be something quite different than your Hammonds. You like me need something beside the Hammond. Now, if you want a realistic pipe organ sound in an early analog organ, you need to check out a Wurlitzer ES organ in both spinet and console models.</P>
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James</P>

[Guest]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie

i definitely will check the classifieds for a wurlitzer. i am aware of how lush the tremelo is, thats why i wish to use it with a hammond. my interests in organs are limited to hammonds and organs that sound like pipe organs. this organ has an awkward sound, and unfortunately the panels around the leslie were glued in making the woofer virtually inaccessible. if there's a way i can keep the rest of the organ functioning after stealing its amp and leslie, i'd like to know, because if i build a new key action for it, it would not feel so awkward to play.

[jimmywilliams]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



The amplifier in this organ is not a separate unit; it is integrated with the power supply that supplies all working voltages for the organ. So, no, there is no way to just remove the leslie baffle/amp/speaker and still be able to use the organ in any way (since it will have no power and no working voltages). </P>


I'm not encouraging this at all, but if you must...,you can get to the speaker be removing the front panel and then un-screwing the plywood cover over the speaker enclosure from the front of the organ.</P>


FYI it will not be easy to take these parts and cobble together a working leslie cabinet. The preamp circuit is in the PS/Amp, and the expression pedal plugs in somewhere around there. Without the expression pedal pushed down (or some sort of bypass) you will get no volume at all. ALso, I believe the leslie motor relay (on/off switch) is somewhere else in the organ (if it is like many of the older Gulbransens) but I do not know for sure..</P>


The amp /power supply is most likely an APS5 and as you can see they do not sell for much at all:</P>


http://cgi.ebay.com/Gulbransen-6L6-G...QQcmdZViewItem</P>


I see lower rotors and single speed motors on ebay occasionally - also very cheap (usually - otherwise they do not move).</P>


Just providing information ....</P>
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-jim</P>
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[james]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



Your description of the key action perplexes me. I know it is different than Hammond, and most organs have their unique way the touch is on the keyboards and pedals. Are the keys wood? If you can describe the key action. I know it will be so different from Hammond which is very percussive even in the action.</P>


James</P>

[jimmywilliams]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



James,</P>


If I recall correctly this model used rubber upstop bushings so that keychannel would have a smooth action - not clunking down or up. I would guess that over 40 years the upstop bushings have dried out. This is very apparent when certain keys look they are higher or lower than others, and also if you try to do a glissando down the keyboard it will be very hard to do and very clunky. Here is what is PROBABLY happening: the upstop bushings are dried out - they keychannel "thunks" against the chasis when depressed - key switch travells too far and the individual copper wires do not make correct contact with the tibia pitch bussbars (overtravel)- key "thunks" when it returns to stationary position.</P>


If the synptoms sound something like this, replacing the upstop bushings will make a WORLD of difference. I replaced all the upstop bushings on my Model D keyboards and it is a pleasure to play - a very smooth action, especially compared to how it played when I first got it - like playing 2 different organs.</P>


I'm not sure if the G3A used the Pratt-Read system (which would only require one upstop bushing per key), or another system (forgot the name) that requires 2 bushings per key. I'll dig up some of my old service info and check it out.</P>


-jim</P>

[james]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



-jim,</P>


Thanks for your post. I do recall seeing pics of Gulbranasen organs on Ebay that have some keys raised up higher than they should be. So I have wondered if they would have needed all new keys or just repair. So it is the bushings then. I have never had that problem with any brand of organs I have owned, but I have never had a Gulbransen either. I do have my large Baldwin Church organ that has some stiff keys on the Great manual right in teh middle. Then I have one key on the upper manual that clicks when it is used and has a strange feel to it. I am glad none have those dreaded cyphers. I thought maybe a hymnal had been dropped on the manaul and it hit that one key just at the right way to damage it somewhat. I have had all kinds of messes happen to me playing for churches and been in all kinds of messes as a result. I look back and wonder why did I put up with some of the stuff as long as I did.</P>


Thanks for your input. I do love the Gulbransen organs, and before I stop collecting organs I wish I could own at least one.</P>


I have noticed some President models without drawbars or they may be a model E. I get those mixed up. I noticed one on Ebay which had two red tabs for reeds in the upper manual, and it two set of drawbars. I did not see any redreed tabs in the lower manual. Those on the lower manual were all white such as the Pacemaker deluxe we sold in the store in the early 80's. I am wondering if the specs on these were somewhat similiar?</P>


James</P>

[jimmywilliams]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



James,</P>


There is no such thing as a President without drawbars. There are two possible alternatives for what you saw - either a Model E, or a Model N-1 (AKA the "Concert" model). The N-1 is somewhat rareso you probably saw a Model E. The N-1 would have had a mesh panel in the front (it had 4-channel sound) while the E has thenormal wood front with the louvers for the internal Leslie baffle. Those were the only Gulbransens of that vintage that had a straight stoprail and 25 pedals. The organ on ebay you are describing is a President.</P>


If you are looking for a Gulbransen ... I guess it is not practical for you to get your hands on this G3A? </P>


-jim</P>

[james]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



-jim,</P>


Distance is the reason for me acquiring a few organs I run across ever so often. The recent mention of the G3A is another one. Thanks for the info regarding the President models. I am sure I saw the Model E then since it was on Ebay. I did see a President of Ebay too.</P>


James</P>

[Guest]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie

[quote user="jimmywilliams"]

James,</p>


There is no such thing as a President without drawbars. There are two possible alternatives for what you saw - either a Model E, or a Model N-1 (AKA the "Concert" model). The N-1 is somewhat rareso you probably saw a Model E. The N-1 would have had a mesh panel in the front (it had 4-channel sound) while the E has thenormal wood front with the louvers for the internal Leslie baffle. Those were the only Gulbransens of that vintage that had a straight stoprail and 25 pedals. The organ on ebay you are describing is a President.</p>


If you are looking for a Gulbransen ... I guess it is not practical for you to get your hands on this G3A? </p>


-jim</p>[/quote]
hold on... there are gulbransens with drawbars???. sweeet! i think i'll go search for one

[jimmywilliams]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie



Here are the Gulbransen models with tibia drawbars:</P>


Consoles: President, Rialto II; Spinets: Paragon, Theatrum, Palace.</P>


These are all of the "mid-period" vintage as opposed to your G3A which was in the "early" period. The early Gulbransens like your G3A had individual tibia oscillators (in MOST cases) - if you take the back off the G3A you can see all the tibia oscillator assemblies on the right side. The organs I mention above all used divider circuits and "flute filters" to produce the tibias. </P>


FYI Since you are into Hammonds you should know the following: Drawbars were for manuals only and not for pedals. Lower manual drawbars did not include 16' or 5 1/3'. All the organs above are multi-channel organs so a single-channel external leslie would not be able to carry all the voices. At the very least, Pedal, Piano/Harpsichord, and Tibias were carried by separate channels. Rialto II and Palace had even more separate channels of sound.</P>


You can usually find these very cheap or free. There is a Palace on e-bay buy-it-now for under 200 dollars. Search Craigslist or ebay regularly and eventually something will turn up.</P>


What are your plans for the G3A? I don't know what you paid for it but I hope you decide to sell/donate it instead of chopping it up. Of course it is your property to do with as you please; I just hate to see these organs becoming "extinct".. The Leslie cabinet "equivalent" to what is in the G3Ais a model 25 - with 20W amp (that cabinet was sold with or without an amp). Thosecabinets areusually not very expensive in any case and as I said earlier to cobble the speaker/amp-ps/motor/rotor into a"new" Leslie 25 cabinet would require more work than the cabinet is probably worth. As I said I am not encourgaing this, but in all honesty It can be done if you have an empty cabinet, the appropriate G3A schematics, an understanding of the mods that would be necessary, and a lot of patience. Remember that these were designed to be an integral part of the organs they were installed in, and were never designed to be used outside the organ. </P>


A while ago I sawthe remains of aGulbransen Model E for sale that was chopped up to make an equivalentLeslie cabinet. The person just sawed parts of the organ cabinet to complete the enclosure; it still had the expression pedal as part of the "cabinet"!People called ita "Franken-Leslie" and nobody was interested in it. I did save the pictures from the listing (can't find them now...).</P>


-jim</P>

[Guest]

Re: gulbransen transistor with in built leslie

so essentially the drawbar gulbransens are like spinet hammonds. my idea on using the leslie would be to just take the woofer, the rotor, and make my own simple cabinet, and wire the woofer to the amp in my hammond m2, or l-100. if i use the l-100, i'll probably use one of the speakers in there and just use the rotor and motor from the gulbransen. and then the gulbransen could just operate with a speaker, but no tremelo. i picked this up free from a few towns over. would people hate me if i just take the rotors and keep the rest in tact? i am against the all out destruction of instruments, so if i can simply rearrange things i want from one organ to another. once i get a direct box i might have use for this organ with a line out.