Exchange the 6pin Amphenol plug and Sockets for speakon

[kjegud]

Hey, i like to exchange the 6pin Amphenol plug and Sockets for speakon 8pin plug and Sockets on my Leselie 147.is there a stander how to connect it?
I have a pinout schematic that says:
Pin 1 on leselie to 1+ on speakon
Pin 2 on leselie to 2+ on speakon
Pin 3 on leselie to 3+ on speakon
Pin 4 on leselie to 4+ on speakon
Pin 5 on leselie to 1- on speakon
Pin 6 on leselie to 2- on speakon
Thanks in advance for your advice.

[David Anderson]

No, there is no standard wiring for the Speakon connectors, which can become a major problem.

For example, one night, I got called to an emergency at a concert where a guy was having problems with his 147 amp. I had a spare amp with me, but we couldn't swap the amps because, unknown to me when he called, he had put Speakon connectors on his rig. There was no time to repair his amp, and there was nothing I could do.

What some people do is to mount a Speakon connector to the Leslie cabinet with a metal flange, while keeping the amp unmodified, and then attach the Speakon connector to the amp via a short adapter cable, preserving the original Amphenol plug on the amp. With this approach, you maintain the ability to use Speakon cables and swap amps if necessary. All cable strain and abuse are taken by the Speakon connectors, so the Amphenol connector doesn't get damaged.

Also, if I were working on a Speakon modified amp in my shop, I'd have no way to test it other than having to hook up a bunch of alligator-clip leads.

Using Speakon connectors seems like a great idea -- until you run into a connector compatibility issue.

[Tim_at_Jonas]

Don't ask where this came from:

Stock 1 = NL8 1+ = Audio +

2 = 1- = Ground

3 = 2+ = Neutral

4 = 2- = Live

5 = 3+ = B+

6 = 3- = Audio-

x = 4+ = shield* Audio

x = 4- = shield B+*

*applies only if using cable with a power triad and two shielded pairs

[kjegud]

Thanks for your answer
Ok so it seams that there is a least 2 different ways to connect (count pin on the speakon )
Amphenol 1 2 3 4 5 6
Speakon 1+ 2+ 3+ 4+ 1- 2- 3- 4-
Speakon 1+ 1- 2+ 2- 3+ 3- 4+ 4-

[David Anderson]

Mathematically, there are lots of different ways to do it, and that's the point I was trying (through probably not succeeding) in making.

You can never trust a non-standard Leslie connector to be wired to a standard that doesn't exist. If you want to plug your amp into an unknown connection and see your amp disabled by the ensuing fireworks, that's your choice. I have seen this happen. It's bad enough that there are two 6-pin standards.

But as I said above, the only accepted standard I'm aware of is to keep the Amphenol connector on the amp and wire a short adapter cable to a Speakon connector mounted elsewhere on the Leslie cabinet. That way, you can use your own Speakon system that only needs to be consistent with itself.

[andyg]

I would never trust any non-standard connector set-up, for the very valid reasons given above! I too have seen the results where colleagues, more trusting than me, have plugged things in the 'logical' way - logical to them, but not to the person who set things up. The smoke was sometimes a pretty colour, though. :(

If you do this, as well as leaving the 6 pin connection there as David advises, then attach - very firmly - some sort of diagram near the Speakon connectors that clearly identifies what is what. You never know, you, never mind anyone else, might otherwise get it wrong one day. We've all had occasion to have to set up on stage in a hurry, with little light.

[wayshot]

The amp in my Leslie 145 is rewired to Speakon. The pinout is clearly marked right above the socket to avoid any misunderstandings. It's the same pinout as many other organs and Leslies in the Trøndelag area of Norway, but I know about two other Speakon "standards" (Vintagebua and MAFY) which are NOT compatible.
The "Trøndelag standard" uses an EIS-122 relay in both 122 and 147 amps for DC-controlled speed switching. Pinout as follows: 1+/1-: 230V mains. 2+: DC for relay. 2-: Ground. 3+: Signal (147)/signal hot (122). 3-: Signal cold (122)

[Drawbar Dave]

I really don’t see the point of alternative connection models. The six pin male and female plugs are still widely available and easy to maintain. I can understand the desire to upgrade or add a mains ac receptacle, but to a Leslie cable you are just making unnecessary work if you are a gigging musician. I can understand large budget touring bands with spare amps and cables using a non standard upgrade but for the kind of low budget musician that David described like myself, keep it stock!

[David Anderson]

The main complaint from touring musicians is that the Amphenol connectors get damaged by plugging and unplugging them frequently, which, to be honest, they were not designed for. Or they complain that their roadies step on the connectors and break them.

Using more rugged connectors as a bridge between components solves this problem, but if you do it the way I suggested (not my idea, by the way), you can use them without rendering your system incompatible with the original Leslie standard.

[Drawbar Dave]

The main complaint from touring musicians is that the Amphenol connectors get damaged by plugging and unplugging them frequently, which, to be honest, they were not designed for. Or they complain that their roadies step on the connectors and break them.

Using more rugged connectors as a bridge between components solves this problem, but if you do it the way I suggested (not my idea, by the way), you can use them without rendering your system incompatible with the original Leslie standard.

I have seen the Amphenol EP 6 System used on Pink Floyd, Fleetwood MAC and Steve Winwoods touring B3’s which makes better sense as there are only 6 conductors hence less confusion.

[Tim Rinkerman]

I used an 8 pin Neutrik connector to get rid of the pair of cables that connect the top and bottom of my 925. As long as you keep a record of the pinout...all is good. I wired it the way you are suggesting..Amphenol 1-6 = 1+,1-,2+,2-...etc...By the way, the second cable of the 900 series only uses one single conductor!

[geoffbrown]

There's a good reason to use alternative plugs to the six pin leslie and PR40 plugs it's called electrical safety.

These plugs are a fine example of the unsafe electrical regs and practices of the 1960' a time when many people were routinely electrocuted in the home or work place, in so called electrical accidents,that's why electrical regs are much tougher now days|
The six pin plugs have exposed conductors on the face of the female plug and no locking mechanism, therefore easy for the unwary to detach and be exposed to a lethal voltage,likely to be a young child.

I have read that authorities in some parts of the world insist on the leslie being hard wired to the organ to avoid this very situation.
I'm in the process of getting rid of the six pin plugs from my stock Hammond/Leslie setup and so removing a serious electrical hazard which many people would not even be aware of!

[Hamman]

Never in my 45 years have I ever got shocked by an 6 pin amphenal plug end........either on the organ, or Leslie 147, 122, 251, 760-770, 44w, 46w etc.etc. Hundreds of times plugging and unplugging. The only smoking situation I've seen is when someone, with brute strength, forces one of these connectors on the wrong way or into the wrong Leslie.
If you want to talk electrical safety, let's first talk about the ghostly floating ground on the preamp

[geoffbrown]

You may have never been shocked in 45 years but the potential is obviously there ,that's why no modern day electrical appliance would ever be connected legally in this way ,electrical safety is not something to be scoffed at

[Sweet Pete]

I'm all for beefing up the originals,never at the expense of safety and all.
The original metal cups and covers for amphenol in MIL spec still exist.
That being said those who manage their own cabling and install/uninstall
and know how to be careful can usually get away with it.

When a tech looks at my rigs,that person can refer to the original schematic and diagram.
The main reason my rig works is,I am the one that looks after it.
I have too many gigs and too much playing to worry about changing anything.
I am happy to be able to figure out my own issues,this forum has been a great help too!

If you need speakon connectors for your safety reasons that is understood.
Those of us that nurse along the originals aren't usually looking for help repairing 'on site'.
"Hey,can I help you hookup that rig?" "Yeah sure,go get us a coffee ;>)"

I'll only add that although my cabling is wired stock,most of my Leslie 'kits' are home made
and are never installed in the organ.Keeping Leslie AC seperate not only saves the organ start/run switches,
finding an issue with either becomes a lot easier.....where's that coffee?

[kjegud]

The amp in my Leslie 145 is rewired to Speakon. The pinout is clearly marked right above the socket to avoid any misunderstandings. It's the same pinout as many other organs and Leslies in the Trøndelag area of Norway, but I know about two other Speakon "standards" (Vintagebua and MAFY) which are NOT compatible.
The "Trøndelag standard" uses an EIS-122 relay in both 122 and 147 amps for DC-controlled speed switching. Pinout as follows: 1+/1-: 230V mains. 2+: DC for relay. 2-: Ground. 3+: Signal (147)/signal hot (122). 3-: Signal cold (122)

Do you know the pinout for Vintagebua and MAFY?

[enor]

I really don’t see the point of alternative connection models. The six pin male and female plugs are still widely available and easy to maintain.

They are also very dangerous electrically, both because of insulation issues (sending mains down a cable that has METAL endcaps and only some cardboard as insulation) and because they incorporate a pretty scary speed switching system.
Also, they are limited in that they don't allow for 3-speed operation (with stop).
And finally, the amphenol systems that DO have 3-speed operation... the 9 and 11 pin... don't offer balanced audio.

At least here in Sweden, a national SPEAKON standard is emerging that has balanced audio, proper speed switching, and no mains on the audio cable. That's the way to do it, if you want to transfer both signal and switching over a single cable, if you ask me.

Alternatively, I have used twin outlets. A 1/4" TRS for balanced audio, and an XLR for (low voltage) speed switching. That means taping two cables together, but it also means that if a cable breaks there's always a suitable replacement at hand... just grab a normal guitar or mic cable as a temporary solution.