Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

adding second leslie (145) to A100 and 251

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • adding second leslie (145) to A100 and 251

    Hey guys,

    I recently acquired a leslie 145 (220v). I want to hook it up to my A100 which already has a 251 connected to it. The 251 is connected with the correct 251 leslie kit. Audio signal comes from GG outputs and power separately from a wall socket since organ is 110v and leslie 220v. I have another leslie kit (037655) available for the 145 if necessary. I would like to be able to use the half moon switches already in place (from the 251) for both leslies if possible. Should there be any problem if I hook up the leslie 145 via the 251 kit together with the 251? I am aware of the differences in the 6C and 6W cable pin outs, I posted them below. Is there anything I should be aware of? I see the only difference in pinouts is pin 4 and pin 5. Any advice?

    Thanks!
    1 Black INPUT [Balanced] SIGNAL GROUND SIGNAL GROUND
    2 Yellow SIGNAL/DC GROUND TREMOLO RELAY COIL TREMOLO RELAY COIL
    3 Gray AC POWER IN AC POWER IN AC POWER IN
    4 Blue AC POWER IN AC POWER IN AC POWER IN/
    TREMOLO RELAY COIL
    5 Brown B+ [Approx.300VDC] TREMOLO RELAY COIL CHANNEL TWO INPUT [Unbalanced]
    6 Red INPUT [Balanced] SIGNAL INPUT [Unbalanced] CHANNEL ONE INPUT [Unbalanced]
    SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

    1960 Hammond A-100
    1964 Leslie 251
    2013 Hammond SK1-73

  • #2
    If you look at a 6W kit - pins 4 & 5 are connected together. In the 145 amp, pin 5 goes to the tremolo relay.
    On a 6C connection (Leslie 251), kit pin 5 carries the secondary audio. In the 251 amp, the tremolo relay is connected to pin 4.

    You can effectively make the 145 amp a 6C type connection by removing the tremolo relay wire off pin 5 and connecting it to pin 4. WIred like this, the 145 will work on a 6W or 6C connection.

    Jim

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jaim View Post
      If you look at a 6W kit - pins 4 & 5 are connected together. In the 145 amp, pin 5 goes to the tremolo relay.
      On a 6C connection (Leslie 251), kit pin 5 carries the secondary audio. In the 251 amp, the tremolo relay is connected to pin 4.

      You can effectively make the 145 amp a 6C type connection by removing the tremolo relay wire off pin 5 and connecting it to pin 4. WIred like this, the 145 will work on a 6W or 6C connection.

      Jim
      Allright thanks for the reply. I do not intend to change the amp. I'd rather change the wiring outside the leslie. I have another 6 pin socket laying around I can connect to the socket in the 8253 kit and put the 145 cable in. Just to be sure is there anyone who can confirm this, you know just in case i blow something up. But as you say there should not be any compatibility problems with the 145 and 251 kit and 251 leslie besides the 6C and 6W cable differences? Also the 251 kit I have is a 8253 btw.
      Last edited by sjoerd1234; 03-19-2019, 06:30 AM.
      SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

      1960 Hammond A-100
      1964 Leslie 251
      2013 Hammond SK1-73

      Comment


      • #4
        You can make the pin 4 to 5 connection in the kit (6W type), however that connection could only be used for the 145. Plugging in the 251 could put AC on pin 5 (secondary audio).

        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jaim View Post
          You can make the pin 4 to 5 connection in the kit (6W type), however that connection could only be used for the 145. Plugging in the 251 could put AC on pin 5 (secondary audio).

          Jim
          I do not intend to change the kit. I meant wiring the 145 to the 251 kit every pin from the 6pin 145 separately to the 251(8253) kit.
          SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

          1960 Hammond A-100
          1964 Leslie 251
          2013 Hammond SK1-73

          Comment


          • #6
            That would be fine except this new connection would be for a 145 (6W) only.
            In reality, the only difference between a 6C and a 6W is the use of pin 5. If you disregard the secondary audio, the difference is where the tremolo relay connection is made (Kit or amp)

            Jim

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jaim View Post
              That would be fine except this new connection would be for a 145 (6W) only.
              In reality, the only difference between a 6C and a 6W is the use of pin 5. If you disregard the secondary audio, the difference is where the tremolo relay connection is made (Kit or amp)

              Jim

              Alright final question, about your first answer you say I can turn my 145 into a 6C connection by removing tremolo relay coil from pin 5 and connecting it to pin 4. I think this is the best solution. Is this not a problem for the 145 in any way since you're adding AC POWER IN into tremolo relay coil where normally this is not the case? Also couldn't this change be done between the leslie amp and leslie cable
              SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

              1960 Hammond A-100
              1964 Leslie 251
              2013 Hammond SK1-73

              Comment


              • #8
                One side of the tremolo relay connects to pin 5 and the other to pin 2. Pin 2 is the switched side.
                Like I mentioned earlier the 147 kit has pins 4 & 5 connected. Whether this connection is in the kit / cable or amp (like a 251) is immaterial.

                One other thing came to mind. As these are 220V leslies, is the switching 220v as well?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jaim View Post
                  One side of the tremolo relay connects to pin 5 and the other to pin 2. Pin 2 is the switched side.
                  Like I mentioned earlier the 147 kit has pins 4 & 5 connected. Whether this connection is in the kit / cable or amp (like a 251) is immaterial.

                  One other thing came to mind. As these are 220V leslies, is the switching 220v as well?
                  allright thanks, The leslies are European 220v, I do not know about the switching but if in the US versions switching is 110v then for the 220v leslie the switching is probably 220v aswel. I might be wrong though.
                  SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                  1960 Hammond A-100
                  1964 Leslie 251
                  2013 Hammond SK1-73

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oke I hooked everything up. Got one problem. The 145 works perfectly. But the 251 doesn't. When on chorale position everything works. Both leslies sound great. When I turn the switch to tremolo the 251 doesn't go fast and the motor makes a very fast ticking noise. The 145 works perfect. When I unplug the 145 cable the 251 works perfect again. The tremolo coil on pin 2 seems to give a problem for the 251 when the 145 is hooked to it aswel. Any suggestions?
                    SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                    1960 Hammond A-100
                    1964 Leslie 251
                    2013 Hammond SK1-73

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I did some voltage measuring. And i see a difference which might be the cause. When measuring the tremolo relay coil voltage between pin 2 and pin 4. With only 251 connected the voltage reads 230 on chorale and 130 on tremolo. With only the 145 connected chorale gives 230 and tremolo 15. Does anybody know what this means? Btw the noise of the 251 in tremolo position sounds like the relay buzzes like a doorbell. I've been experimenting all day, even trying to connect the 145 trough the second kit which connects to the 251 kit. I found out by doing this if I connect pin 2 from 145 with the 251 directly as done before but now with a resistor added aswel between the connection, (so direct connection as before AND with resistor added) both leslies operated on fast whereas before the 251 buzzed. Switching back to chorale seems to work aswell for both leslies. However switching back to tremolo doesn't work for the 145. Any suggestions?
                      Last edited by sjoerd1234; 03-23-2019, 09:39 AM.
                      SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                      1960 Hammond A-100
                      1964 Leslie 251
                      2013 Hammond SK1-73

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wonder if the two leslies have different relay coils. With leslies disconnected: 147 - measure resistance between pins 2-5.
                        251 - measure resistance between pins 2 -4.

                        Jim

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is acting as if the relay coils are wired in series, but I don’t even know how that can be possible. Relay coils are switched in and out of circuit, and when they are, they’re in parallel with AC.

                          You hear stories of house wiring nightmares such as “when I turn on my hair dryer, the lights go dim”. Such nonsense happens when stuff gets wired in series and not parallel. But again I cannot figure out how this would apply to Leslie tremolo coils.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jaim View Post
                            I wonder if the two leslies have different relay coils. With leslies disconnected: 147 - measure resistance between pins 2-5.
                            251 - measure resistance between pins 2 -4.

                            Jim
                            Allright I checked it and there's a difference! The 147 reads nothing and the 251 reads 3.03:

                            251:
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	20190324_143929~2.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	90.0 KB
ID:	653113
                            Last edited by sjoerd1234; 03-24-2019, 06:43 AM.
                            SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                            1960 Hammond A-100
                            1964 Leslie 251
                            2013 Hammond SK1-73

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by muckelroy View Post
                              This is acting as if the relay coils are wired in series, but I don’t even know how that can be possible. Relay coils are switched in and out of circuit, and when they are, they’re in parallel with AC.

                              You hear stories of house wiring nightmares such as “when I turn on my hair dryer, the lights go dim”. Such nonsense happens when stuff gets wired in series and not parallel. But again I cannot figure out how this would apply to Leslie tremolo coils.
                              When I change the ohm selector switch on the 145 (8 ohm, 16 ohm, open) the sound volume changes not only for the 145 but the 251 aswel. There might be a problem with series parallel indeed.

                              When everything is hooked up except pin 2 tremolo relay coil from the 145, the the 251 works fine. The moment I connect pin 2 from the 145 to pin 2 of the 251, the 251 relay goes buzzing like crazy.

                              I've got some really big questionmarks above my head. Spend the entire afternoon again experimenting without result. Eagerly awaiting the organforum guru's, i'm clueless
                              Last edited by sjoerd1234; 03-24-2019, 03:02 PM.
                              SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                              1960 Hammond A-100
                              1964 Leslie 251
                              2013 Hammond SK1-73

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X