That swirling psych sound

[Markley]

Hello everybody,
this may be a dumb question since I am a bit of a newbie in hammond organ .
I'd love to know how I can produce with my organ that swirling sound of the following video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJM7...g&index=9&t=0s
From 1.30 and after the organist Giorgio Carnini does a really great job with this psych sound
I have a Viscount Legend Live and I have the sense that I need to use a pedal or something like Neo Ventilator ? If I am not mistaken

Any help is very much appreciated !

[kziss]

Hello everybody, this may be a dumb question since I am a bit of a newbie in hammond organ .
I'd love to know how I can produce with my organ that swirling sound of the following video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJM7...g&index=9&t=0s From 1.30 and after the organist Giorgio Carnini does a really great job with this psych sound. I have a Viscount Legend Live and I have the sense that I need to use a pedal or something like Neo Ventilator ? If I am not mistaken Any help is very much appreciated !

Hi Markley.
Giorgio Carnini's organ sounds like a spinet Hammond organ such as an L-100 series or an M-100 series organ, and the sound is coming either from the built in organ speakers, or possibly from a stopped Leslie, because no Leslie chorale of tremolo rotary effect is audible, instead the swirly effect sounds like the built in organ vibrato effect combined with a heavy or very "wet" studio spring or plate reverb effect and Giorgio is playing a slowly ascending and descending run of notes, and because of the long reverb decay, the ascending and descending notes blend into each other and thus create a shimmering wash of sound.

The very "wet" reverb effect makes the organ sound like it is distant, as if it is in another room, and the long decay of the reverb effect combined with the vibrato effect greatly enhances that eerie shimmery or swirly sounding effect.

With your Viscount Legend Live organ try setting the Vibrato dial to the V2 or V3 setting and try out the reverb settings with a long decay and set the reverb depth control to the maximum reverb level in order to produce the wettest sounding reverb effect, and then play a slowly ascending and descending sequence of notes.

Another important factor which enhances the "mysterious" or eerie sounding character of the track is the actual recording sound quality because of the warm sounding analog tonality, and the clip also sounds like it was copied from an old vinyl record which also colors and enhances the psych quality of the sound.

The studio production techniques and the miking methods and the analog recording of the late 1960's/ early 70's era are very important factors which help make the recordings of the 1960's/ early 1970's era very sonicaly pleasant sounding as opposed to today's slick, sophisticated ultra high fidelity, but often rather cold or sterile sounding digital sound and recording techniques.

You can hear similar swirling psych organ sounds in the following two psychedelic songs from 1970 by the Australian band "Jeff St John's Copperwine".
These two songs feature a Hammond L-100 series or M-100 series spinet organ through a Leslie and with a heavy "wet" studio reverb effect.

Jeff St John's Copperwine '"Cloud Nine"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivShjSb6gIM

Jeff St John's Copperwine - Reach Out (I'll Be There) (Four Tops Cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ibOKFXYb4

All the best.
Kon.

[KC9UDX]

Sounds like tape delay plus plate reverb to me.

[Markley]

Hi Markley.
Giorgio Carnini's organ sounds like a spinet Hammond organ such as an L-100 series or an M-100 series organ, and the sound is coming either from the built in organ speakers, or possibly from a stopped Leslie, because no Leslie chorale of tremolo rotary effect is audible, instead the swirly effect sounds like the built in organ vibrato effect combined with a heavy or very "wet" studio spring or plate reverb effect and Giorgio is playing a slowly ascending and descending run of notes, and because of the long reverb decay, the ascending and descending notes blend into each other and thus create a shimmering wash of sound.

The very "wet" reverb effect makes the organ sound like it is distant, as if it is in another room, and the long decay of the reverb effect combined with the vibrato effect greatly enhances that eerie shimmery or swirly sounding effect.

With your Viscount Legend Live organ try setting the Vibrato dial to the V2 or V3 setting and try out the reverb settings with a long decay and set the reverb depth control to the maximum reverb level in order to produce the wettest sounding reverb effect, and then play a slowly ascending and descending sequence of notes.

Another important factor which enhances the "mysterious" or eerie sounding character of the track is the actual recording sound quality because of the warm sounding analog tonality, and the clip also sounds like it was copied from an old vinyl record which also colors and enhances the psych quality of the sound.

The studio production techniques and the miking methods and the analog recording of the late 1960's/ early 70's era are very important factors which help make the recordings of the 1960's/ early 1970's era very sonicaly pleasant sounding as opposed to today's slick, sophisticated ultra high fidelity, but often rather cold or sterile sounding digital sound and recording techniques.

You can hear similar swirling psych organ sounds in the following two psychedelic songs from 1970 by the Australian band "Jeff St John's Copperwine".
These two songs feature a Hammond L-100 series or M-100 series spinet organ through a Leslie and with a heavy "wet" studio reverb effect.

Jeff St John's Copperwine '"Cloud Nine"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivShjSb6gIM

Jeff St John's Copperwine - Reach Out (I'll Be There) (Four Tops Cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ibOKFXYb4

All the best.
Kon.

Hi kziss,
Thanks very much for the tips ! I just tried your settings using EHX Cathedral Reverb pedal and the results are pretty close to the desired once !
In order for the proper sound that Giorgio Carnini produces, I believe that I will need more pedals so as to achieve the best possible swirling eerie sound as
you very well described.
Although I agree with you that in order for the sound to be produced the techiniques of the studio helped very much.

Btw Jeff St John's Copperwine organ sound is killer !
The old time classics of the end of 60's early 70's !

[Markley]

Sounds like tape delay plus plate reverb to me.

Hi KC9UDX,

Yes I strongly believe that I need more pedals but don't know what exactly. Now I check for Tape Delay pedal and seems that help enough ( Didn't know that kind of pedal so far ).
I keep looking for more types of effect pedals .

[Brendon Wright]

I love the way KZiss analyses these old recordings!

[Markley]

Indeed ! And he was very helpful ! And KC9UDX as well

[KC9UDX]

Yes I strongly believe that I need more pedals but don't know what exactly. Now I check for Tape Delay pedal and seems that help enough ( Didn't know that kind of pedal so far ).
I keep looking for more types of effect pedals .[/B]

I wouldn't use pedals at all; I'd use a rack-mount multi-effects processor. You might find a nice used one, I don't see any new products that look like they'd work well. But I might be looking in the wrong places.

[Sweet Pete]

Pre-emphasis is the magic of 'tape delay' and the Boss Space Echo clone pedal has just the right gain.
Also loving the audio inputs of the Behringer Neutron and Model D
for ring mod,delay and filter sweeping the drawbars.
Always a fun trick to have a comb filter sweeping too!This Nord C2D seems to enjoy outboard FX and processing!

Nailing the chorale vibratos of an M100 with a pedal will be a tall order me thinks.
Those regenerative lines really are the best .Single best feature of that model IMO.

[kziss]

Hi kziss,
Thanks very much for the tips ! I just tried your settings using EHX Cathedral Reverb pedal and the results are pretty close to the desired once !
In order for the proper sound that Giorgio Carnini produces, I believe that I will need more pedals so as to achieve the best possible swirling eerie sound as you very well described.

Hi Markley.
There are a lot of delay pedals available in different price ranges. I do not know what the best pedal would be to recreate the same tape delay sound as heard on Giorgio Carnini's Hammond organ, but apparently the tape delay simulator delay pedals produced by Strymon such as the "El Capistan" pedal are reputed to be very good at recreating the sound of tape delay, however the Strymon pedals are very expensive.

Btw Jeff St John's Copperwine organ sound is killer !
The old time classics of the end of 60's early 70's !

You can hear the whole "Joint Effort" (1970) album by Jeff St John's Copperwine in the link here below. The "Joint Effort" album features plenty of Barry Kelly's swirling Hammond organ and the Leslie:

Jeff St. John's Copperwine - Joint effort (1970) (AUSTRALIA, Psychedelic, Blues Rock)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBJPcKqdZOA

The old time classics of the end of 60's early 70's !

Although I am 48 years old, my absolute favourite music era is the mid and late 1960's and the early 1970's era. That era has never been bettered.
Apart from the new music and bands who are heavily influenced by the 1960's/ 70's era, at this stage I doubt that there will ever be any new modern or future music styles that could ever compare to the quality and sound of the great music from the 1960's/ 70's era, however it would be great if there could be a permanent renaissance and continuing accurate sounding recreation of the 1960's/70's era music and it's sounds ( such as the Hammond organ and Leslie), like there is with orchestral Classical music, Opera, Jazz music and the numerous ethnic music styles from around the world which continue to be played like they were in the old days.
All the best.
Kon.

[Sweet Pete]

Good on you youngsters picking up where the previous generation left off.I find modern rock etc. mostly 'lame' stuff.
Some good for sure however....even the playing/performing has deteriorated to the point of no return.
Too many computers on stage, 'pushing play' is considered playing music?
50 years ago last month the Musicians Associations lost their bid to quash the use of sampling,and half a century later here we are.
Lack of education and knowledge,combined with the demands of the digital age didn't exactly spawn a music explosion like the 1950/1960/1970 eras.

At the ELO concert we attended last week,not only was the crowd younger than us for the most part,
these youngsters knew every lyric and hummed every melody.
Dhani Harrison was great as well,a 'chip off the block' and sang his fathers hit 'Handle Me With Care' ,
to an appreciative sold out crowd of 30/40 ish folks mixed in with
us 'seniors'.Sang and played so much like his father it really was beautiful!
Three keyboardists on one stage,all playing their tails off along with killer vocals and ryhthm section and strings.
I surmised this being the logical progression from the
Procol Harum/Moody Blues classical influence to a more inclusive pop style having a broader appeal,
than the guitar heavy 'rock' classical Deep Purples and Uriah Heeps etc.
We sat 40 feet in front of the desk on the floor of the arena,Gary the FOH tech treated all our ears to a splendid show.
Mixing a 13 piece is tricky.You can read all about his work in Oct 2018 'FOH' magazine.All Digico.......Harrison as well.
Thumbs up for sure!

Jeff Lynne might have disdain for Hammonds,but his audience knows what they like and those keyboardists more than make up for that.
Yes Kon,the bulk of what you like was made before you were even born.
The excitement of making my first recordings 50 years ago in Clovis NM at Norman Petty Studios......will never forget or look past this era!
Jim Gaines is still mixing/tracking Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana.....he's no youngster.

'Ripped Off' is what sampling has provided the younger crowd......apathy,computers,rap,nothing to be gained by learning to play properly?
Sing? Why do that when you can make a million rapping?
Path of least resistance and all......name me any rock singers as good as Mercury or McCartney?
Standing at a concert with eyes glued to a five inch screen? No respect,no taste,no manners.
Wouldn't know music if it hit them.
When it comes to rock and Hammonds? Older is better IMO.

This Boss Space Echo pedal is helpful recreating 'Fly Like An Eagle'.....and other stuff.
I am used to modern keyboards but still prefer a piano and a Hammond.

[KC9UDX]

Did Richard Tandy retire? We watched a recording of a live concert from a decade ago the other day and he was still there.

[Sweet Pete]

Don't know the name,but there is a selfie the band posted from the other night here in Vancouver taken with backs to the crowd....
look it up and see if you recognize him? 13 fabulous players/vocalists,I'd attend another for sure.
Warms my heart to see younger people that do know the difference! Kon,and many others born in the wrong time musically....
when others were banging heads and playing metal,I was studying jazz and ragtime.I love music older than myself as well!
Encyclopedic knowledge of Guns-N Roses wasn't going to land me a Baldry gig,that's for sure!

[KC9UDX]

He is/was(?) the (brilliant) keyboardist for ELO. I don't recall him ever playing a Hammond; but piano, Mellotron, Clavinova (I think), electric piano, and famously guitar (Strange Magic). He has been with ELO since Bev Bevan left, IIRC.

[kziss]

Yes Kon,the bulk of what you like was made before you were even born.
Warms my heart to see younger people that do know the difference! Kon,and many others born in the wrong time musically....

Hi Pete.
Yes I definitely do feel that I was born in the wrong time musically.
As I was born in 1971, I was at high school during the "musically retarded" 1980's era when the great 1960's and 70's music was dismissed as being "outdated and irrelevant" or "passe" and fellow school students who were into the then trendy pop music thought that I was weird because I loved the 1960's music and that I had no interest in the then current Top 40 pop music.

It is quite ironic that those who liked the puerile fizzy trendy 1980's pop music which has dated very badly, thought that I was the weird one because I did not follow the trends and I preferred the much better 1960's and 70's music which even now is still considered to be the best era of music by so many people.
All the best.
Kon.

[KC9UDX]

The best part about the present is that we have all the music of the past. Well, except for the stuff Sony Music doesn't want us to own.

There was plenty of good music in the 1980s. Even the pop music then was better than the pop music today. I'm guessing you haven't heard much 1960s and 1970s pop music. They don't play Lonnie Donegan or the Ohio Express on the 'classic rock' station.

[KC9UDX]

In case you don't remember good music from the 1980s