Frankenleslie 122 motor issue

[Th'Rift]

This post references a previous post titled Leslie 771 project. Figured I'd repost for clarity! So, I had this leslie that was a bunch of parts from a 4 channel solid state that was reduced to 2 channels, a random unidentified speed state amplifier, a 122 crossover, two motors, but no woofer. I thought it was a 771 because of the power cable, turns out it was a bunch of things.

It sat around my shed until I recently picked up a Hammond model D from a church a few towns over. Inside this hammond was a leslie 122 power amp with its audio out clipped to output to the churches house system.
So with a little advice from the master himself, our very own David Anderson, I set to work removing the solid state parts and put the amplifier in the leslie, connected the crossover, jerryrigged a couple of 8 ohm woofers for a 16 ohm load. (Eminence Delta 15b on the way) Then I ordered the leslie motor control plugs from tonewheel general.

Now, here's the issue. I connected the white slow plug to the fat end of the motor, and the brown fast plug to the smaller end.
When the organ is on, the motors spin as they should on chorale, but when I switch to tremolo they click and then stop. I figured it was a broken switch, and indeed the chorale/trem switch had been disconnected from the inside. I replaced it with an identical switch, yet the motors still shut off on tremolo. (Note: when I connected the switch it had to be spliced onto the clipped brown switch wire that lead into the leslie kit mounted on the ceiling of the organ. Is this connection polarized, that is, could that be connected improperly, or does it work either way? )
When I swapped the plugs on the amp end and put the white in the brown socket and vice versa, it ran the horns fast when on chorale, still shut off on tremolo. I swapped them back. The big hammond leslie connector was my next check, but all the pins and sockets on that were clean, connected and solid as rock. Flipped the 122 amp over, surprisingly clean inside nothing looks burnt or broken or disconnected.

So yeah, I'm at a loss right now and could really use some advice.

[Th'Rift]

You're going to help us Mr. Anderson, whether you want to or not.

[Th'Rift]

Sorry, I can't resist an opportunity for a Matrix quote.

[David Anderson]

I get the message. Does the relay flip positions when you change the speed switch? It's a single-pole, double-throw relay. It supplies power to either the Fast or Slow motor sockets. In certain cases, the arc-suppression capacitors on the sockets can fail, but it's less common on 122s of the vintage you have than on earlier versions. This can cause power to be inappropriately applied to both Fast and Slow sockets at the same time.

You can plug something like an ordinary table lamp into the Fast/Slow sockets (as long as it has a non-polarized plug). It's just like an AC socket on the wall of your house. Both Fast sockets should be powered with the speed selector switch on Fast and should be off with the switch on Slow. Both Slow sockets should be powered with the speed selector switch on Slow and should be off with the switch on Fast.

The default position of the relay in a 122 amp is Fast. When the relay coil is energized, it toggles to supply power to the Slow motors.

Maybe post a pic of the underside of the amp.

[Th'Rift]

No light when the lamp is in the slow sockets. Lights up in the fast sockets. I'll post a few pictures today.

[David Anderson]

You didn't answer the first question: Does the relay's reed move when you toggle the speed switch? As I wrote, the default "normally closed" position of the relay is to supply power to the Fast motor outlet.

Does the lamp toggle on and off with the speed switch?

[Th'Rift]

When the lamp is in the fast sockets, the switch turns it on and off, but chorale is on, and trem is off. Doesnt come on at all when it's in the slow sockets. I'm hearing a distinct click when the switch is flipped, but im seeing no motion in the underside of the amp. Where should I look for this reed? Switching relays are what I'll be learning about through this adventure, I've never really had to work on one before.

Also, I've got the caps and tube kits ordered for the Leslie amp.

And thanks again David, I do really appreciate your insight.

[Th'Rift]

Pictures are coming today, it rained a bunch yesterday so I didn't go out at it.

[David Anderson]

The relay contacts do sometimes get damaged or the reed can get bent so that one side doesn't make good contact. The reed is simply the arm of the relay that moves.

Sometimes Leslie switches can end up wired backwards. 147 switch logic is opposite 122 logic.

It doesn't matter what it says on the switch housing. For 122/6H switching, it's closed for Fast, open for Slow.

[Th'Rift]

Here's a video of what happens switching from chorale to trem with a view of the back and a lick.

[Th'Rift]

A few of the underside of the amplifier

[Th'Rift]

How I connected the browns and whites

[tpappano]

That yellow wire that passes over the top of the relay, make sure it's not touching the relay armature and interfering with its free movement. I would dress It to the side.

[David Anderson]

For one thing, the white power cord is supposed to be on the Slow motor, and the brown power cord is supposed to be on the Fast motor, so that explains the reversal.

Is there a shorting plug in the brake socket on the top of the amp chassis? That could interrupt power to the Slow motor sockets.

Is it not possible for you to determine where power is being interrupted? With apologies, that is very basic electronics.

More generally, a Leslie amp from this era probably doesn't need complete recapping. Maybe the Black Cats right at the inputs could be replaced, but the orange ones are pretty reliable. Even the filter cans from that era are unusually long-lasting, certainly better than the current replacement cans.

[Th'Rift]

To clarify, which is the slow motor which is the fast? I've had it connected both ways throughout my experiments, but in the end which one is which?

I certainly can test the circuit with a volt meter, once I've safely identified what im working with and study the schematic, I'm not an electrical student, electrician, or licensed repair person. Broke rock organist here, with nobody to hire to fix this even if I could afford it.

[David Anderson]

The small motor is the Slow motor. When power is applied, the Slow motors engage the drive wheels on the shaft that goes all the way through the Fast motor; then, when power to the Slow motors is turned off, their shafts disengage the drive wheels. At the same time, power is applied to the larger Fast motors.

There are pictures of all this stuff in the service manuals, which can be downloaded.

[Th'Rift]

Motors connected properly. The switch was backwards in its housing as well. The relay reed is moving from one contact to the other on switching. I found another relay on hand on case I have to replace this one, but it seems to be functioning mechanically at least. Connections look good. That yellow wire doesn't seem to be bothering anybody, I moved it aside just in case.

[David Anderson]

To repeat my earlier question, is there a shorting plug in the brake socket on the top side of the amp chassis? The yellow wire you mentioned connects to this socket, and a shorting plug completes the connection to the Slow motor outlets.

[Th'Rift]

Oh my God there's not though, ever do something stupid when you totally know better?

[Th'Rift]

Thank you David! Gonna need a little adjustment for horn speed, but otherwise it is working. The thunderstorms have ceased, everything is rotating, and I have finally experienced the genuine vintage hammond leslie sound. Truly inspiring, I'll be sure to show it off once it's settled in its home.