Frequency Crossover

[Soapm]

We're trying to mic the Leslie at our church 122? for streaming and I'm wondering about the cross over frequencies between the horn and woofer?

We have two Sennheiser e609's in the cabinet now (one in upper one in lower), which is working great for the horn but we're not getting the very lows from the bass pedals (F bass pedal for example). I'm wondering if it's the mic, the mixer or perhaps the sound card in the computer?

[geoelectro]

Crossover is 800hz. I've seen micing the lower portion at the port on the back. This has the effect of a more straight sound with less to none rotor effect. People tend to mic Leslie's too close as well. If it's for streaming you may be able to pull the mic's back from the cabinet more to get a more natural sound.
Also if your system has the ability you can narrow the frequency range of each mic to the actual range of the speaker. This can reduce motor noise etc.

Geo

[Soapm]

What mic would you suggest for the lower portion? There was a suggestion here to use Sennheiser e609's which worked great for the horn, but they don't start to respond until 40hz and don't fully respond until around 100hz. That eliminates and mutes much of the bass pedals.

https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...chnique-photos

[andyg]

There are many opinions on how to mike a leslie and to a very great extent, it depends on the sound you want or like.

I would never put mikes inside a leslie, that ultra close sound does nothing for me. If you want the people listening to the stream to hear things as they would have heard it in church, then I'd recommend following Geoelectro's advice and moving the mikes away from the leslie, to get a more natural sound, including the reflections and multiple doppler shifts off the walls and ceiling.

I put two condenser mikes about 18" from the top louvres, in ORTF configuration and one ribbon or kick drum mike in a shock mount, about 18" from the lower louvres. The ribbon mike needs to have sufficient low frequency response, of course. Makes and models of mikes? I won't give recommendations as everyone will have their own views! Placement is more important to me - I've even got good results using two veteran AKG202 mikes and an ancient BBC branded ribbon mike!

[Papus]

I use a stereo pair of e609's on my 122 horn, and a e602II on the woofer.
The e609 doesn't go anywhere near low enough for the woofer, it's designed for guitar cabinets, i.e. very rapid rolloff in response below about 120 Hz.
You need a proper large diaphragm mic for the woofer - that's why the e602II works so nicely, or any kick drum mic for that matter.
Most often you'll see AKG D112's on Leslie woofers. I'm a fan of Sennheiser so it's the e602II for me.
The e609 and e602II have inbuilt hum-cancelling coils which is a huge advantage in proximity to Leslie motors and amps.



cheers,

[Papus]

I should add: the e609 seems to be more impervious to Leslie rotor wind noise than the e602II.
As you can see in the photo of my 122, I have the e609's facing the open back of the horn compartment, almost flush with the cabinet - almost no wind noise, especially when the mics are rolled off below about 500Hz since theoretically the horn doesn't even go that low. I keep the horn mics rolled off at a lower frequency to capture a bit of the cabinet resonanace from the lower frequencies, whilst still chopping off any residual wind and motor noise.
The woofer is a different story entirely - you can't just low-cut the wind and motor noise because you'll cut the pedal frequencies too.
I place my e602II outside the louvres on the right-hand side (as you face the back of the cabinet), as far away from the motors as possible, and I still have to put a pop filter in front of the e602II to protect it from rotor wind.
If you have the luxury of isolating your 122 in another room off-stage, then I would add a few ambient mics several feet away from the cabinet. Half the sound of a Leslie is the interaction with the room as it throws the sound around.
My 122 is studio-bound - I have a Rode NT1-A large diaphragm condensor permanently located between 3 and 6 feet away from the 122, approximately 3 feet above the floor - the height depends on the desired horn/woofer balance. I find 3-4 feet to be about right. The distance varies depending on how much "power" I want the recorded Leslie track to have - more distance plus heavy compression = greater sense of "power", i.e. "Man, that Leslie sounds LOUD!"

[Soapm]

I put two condenser mikes about 18" from the top louvres, in ORTF configuration and one ribbon or kick drum mike in a shock mount, about 18" from the lower louvres. The ribbon mike needs to have sufficient low frequency response, of course. Makes and models of mikes? I won't give recommendations as everyone will have their own views! Placement is more important to me - I've even got good results using two veteran AKG202 mikes and an ancient BBC branded ribbon mike!

Thanks for the advice Papus and Andy G... Just so you know, we're a fairly small and cramped church. Holds about 250 but we'll be sitting on top of each other and I like to keep the look clean and neat so don't really want the mic's to be seen or have chord etc... That's why we went with putting them inside the Leslie.

@Papus... That's what I noticed that the e609 isn't getting the low frequencies so I will try a kick drum mic instead. We also disabled the rotor in the lower part of the speaker so we don't get that wind noise.

I don't have a trained ear but I'm quit pleased with the mic by the horns. It sounds good on the recordings. What we don't' hear is any bass or bottom end...

[Papus]

Another method if you have limited numbers of mixer channels and mics, is to place a flat boundary mic (Crown PZM, Shure Beta 91A, etc.) on the horn shelf, all the way in and as far from the rotor as possible.
The boundary mic should pick up a nice general wash from the horn, plus enough cabinet resonance to pick up some of the bass too.
Beta 91A is designed as a kick drum mic - it will pick up the pedal frequencies easily.
Added bonus: it's not visible.
I believe Jon Lord was using Beta 91A's at one point back in the 1990's/early 2000's, but then switched back to the old faithful SM57