What is the right approach to speaker setup in a home environment?

[farnsy]

I have Rodgers 905 that has no speakers. At present I use it with headphones only, but I would like some speakers. I'm planning on installing a computer within it so I can flip between the built-in sounds and software organs, so whatever speakers I get, I would like to use for both. My organ has an 8 channel amp in it (currently not connected to anything) and I can also intercept the 8 line-level inputs to the amp if I choose not to use the amp.

What I don't know is whether it makes sense to use 8 separate speakers in this context. It shares the 16x11 acoustically live room with an upright and a digital piano, so there is not a lot of room (picture attached). I would probably need to stack a bunch of speakers on top of the organ if I get 8. The opening into the room is 9 feet across, so acoustically it does include a fairly large space outside the room. But really this organ is for practice, so the volume will pretty much always be low.



Here's my question: I have heard in many places that it's best to keep all the channels separate so the many pitches the organ produces that are near each other don't interfere with each other. But how important is this? For a quiet, practice instrument am I going to notice artifacts if I install a 2.1 speaker setup and mix the channels down? I haven't noticed any problems with the stereo headphones. Unfortunately the organ does not have stereo line outs and I am hesitant to run the headphone audio into speakers. Note that if I only have 2 speakers I could get large and flexible ones, but if I get 8, they would necessarily need to be smaller. Where is the optimal tradeoff between speaker size and number of speakers? According to the service manual, the 4 channel pairs are (A) swell (B) great and pedal (C) choir (D) All low frequencies. I'm not sure whether this means the last two speakers should be subwoofers or whether they should just be larger speakers.

I have on hand a set of JBL 305P monitors and the accompanying subwoofer (also a focusrite scarlett 2i2) if I choose to go 2.1, but I'm willing to blow some money on this project, if it makes sense to do so. I would like nice sound, but I don't want a janga-tower of speakers that are inappropriately sized for my physical space.

Here are the options I have considered:

1. Use the built in amp and get 8 passive speakers. I would hope for rather small speakers since 8 is a lot. Something like 6 Polk Audio T15 speakers stacked on the organ and a tower speaker on each side, like the T50. I'm not sure how adequate the bass would be in that setup, though. If they are for the two lowest channels, maybe a speaker optimized for low sounds is best. If I used this setup, I would need to run my VPO audio through the organ as well. It has two line inputs, so that should be doable. However, this setup would not allow me to easily record the built-in Rodgers sound
2. Use an 8-channel USB audio interface and 8 speakers. I would run the 8 line-outs into it and connect it to my computer. Most likely I would use powered speakers. In this case I would basically throw away the built-in amp. This has appeal since it's an old amp and I would not be surprised if it was not performing at original specs, much less at today's standards. I could see myself buying 4 more 305P speakers or something similar, even though that would be a fairly tall stack of speakers.
3. Use an 8-channel USB audio interface and mix down to stereo. Same as above but I would use the interface to mix the sound down and most likely get bigger, better speakers. The first thing that comes to mind would be a KRK RP10-3. It is a three-way speaker so it should be able to cover the full spectrum. Or I could use my JBL monitors and sub.
4. Physically connect the wires so that they are stereo and use a stereo interface. One advantage of this is that I already have all the parts and speakers for it, so I could do it today without buying anything. I'm tempted to cobble this together and just try it out, but the line out wires are inside a big cable with a serial-port looking connector. I would have to destroy or at least significantly alter this to get the line-outs, which would make it a pain if I did go back to using the built-in amp. I don't know if there are significant problems with physically connecting two separate channels as a way of mixing them.

There might be other approaches as well, which I have not thought of. Which approach (or alternative to these approaches) makes the most sense to you?

Can you recommend some speakers that are not too large but would be appropriate for this application? I could easily see myself getting little speakers like computer-speaker sized for the first 6 channels.

How important is having 8 separate speakers versus having large and expensive speakers?

[jbird604]

You can get a 15-pin D-sub connector that matches the plug going into the existing amp, and use that to tap the 8 channels. That way you don't have to cut the cable or do any damage to it, in case you decide to connect it to the amp at some point in the future. The pin-out is easy to determine, though I don't have a diagram in PDF format that I can upload here. I'll try to describe the pin-out.

Two of the pins carry a 15 volt DC voltage to turn on the relay inside the amp to power it up with the organ. These are pins 9 and 10. You shouldn't need to connect to that voltage when using a non-Rodgers amp.

Pin number one is the common ground for all the audio channels and is normally connected to the shield of the large cable.

You already know that there are six more or less "full-range" audio channels (two for each manual division, though the pedal stops are mixed into the great channels too). These are channels one through six and are found on pins 2 though 7 (though in reverse order, channel one is on pin 7, channel two is on pin 6, etc.) The two bass-only channels (which contain only the frequencies below about 100 Hz for all the other channels, though they are sometimes loosely referred to as the "pedal" channels) -- these are channels 7 and 8, and they are on pins 14 and 15.

That should get you going. Once you have made up a neat adapter unit -- attach eight shielded audio cables to the eight pins carrying audio channels, and the shields of all the cables tied together and connected to pin #1 -- you can use a mixer to blend these down into whatever configuration you want to try, and pan the various channels around in the stereo sound field as you wish. Be aware that each "pair" is a "stereo pair" for a given division of the organ, and as such it will contain a mixed bag of audio effects. For example, the swell pair (channels one and two) may have the Viola in one channel and the Viola Celeste in the other channel. And the mixture stops in any division may have certain "ranks" of a mixture in one channel and other "ranks" in the opposite channel. Some stops may be sort of tapered between the two channels. Some sounds, such as the chimes, may even be on a simulated C-C# split.

So you'll have to experiment to find the best ways to pan the channels around for a good effect. It's primarily because of these distinctive placements that the organ sounds best with all eight channels in separate speakers, but in a small home setup it should be fine to use only a stereo pair and just pan the channels around so that they seem separate even though they are not.

[farnsy]

John, you are such a helpful guy--thanks! I didn't really think of making my own Dsub cable--somehow it felt very proprietary to me. It looks like amazon has them, including versions you can run individual wires to. Attached is a picture of the connection (with pin numbers) and a page from the service manual that describes the pin layout. My board is the 5275-307. This seems completely doable. I'll order a couple of such cables and get started fabricating something that can go a TS audio interface.

According to the service manual, the assignment is

Swell: Channels 1&2
Great and Pedal: Channels 3&4
Choir: Channels 5&6
All low frequencies: Channels 7&8

By default 1-6 would use FR1.7 speakers and 7-8 would use SW7.5. It seems like I saw somewhere what the acttual frequency cutoff was for channels 7 and 8 but I can't seem to find it now--the 100hz you mention sounds about right. If that's the case, I can run these to a sub (or two, I guess).

Do you know if there are problems with just joining four wires each in order to turn this into a stereo connection? If I end up using stereo speakers, I would rather not shell out for an 8x8 audio interface.

Actually, according to this manual there is a 14-pin inline connector that has line left and line right outputs (pins 14 and 15). That connector turns into a male 15 pin dsub, which is currently being used (for the headphones and power up, presumably). I could probably somehow intercept the line outputs from there instead of from the 8 channels. Do you think that would be smarter? According to this page, it should just be the green and blue wires, but none of them are solid blue nor solid green. I guess that makes sense since there is no line out connector on my organ--it's a hidden feature. Such an adventure!

[farnsy]

New plan, it looks like the audio I/O connector is also one of these that you run wires into. I opened it up and saw that everything is connected except pins 12, 13, and 14, which correspond to ground, left line out, and right line out.



I don't know how to add a wire to this type of connector. However, perhaps the easiest path forward is to replace this connector with one that I do understand, like this one and add three wires, which will connect to my own TS connectors, like these. I would plug those into my focusrite or directly into my powered monitors. Does that plan make sense?

[jbird604]

Won't hurt to try it. Just take pictures and document exactly what you do so you can backtrack if necessary. As to simply twisting the 8 wires together into two bundles of four -- I'd suggest that you add a 1K resistor in series with each one before joining them. In other words, attach one end of a 1K resistor to each audio wire, then take the other ends of the resistors and join together the odd channels into a "left" output and the even channels into a "right" output. Having the resistor in there would help preclude the possibility of interactions among the op-amps driving those audio lines.

I'm sure that the line level outputs, if they were available, would be nothing more or less than those exact combinations. Once you do this, you may need to use the setup menus on the organ to re-balance the levels among the divisions, as they may have been tinkered with in the original installation to compensate for speaker placement and other factors.

[farnsy]

jbird604 That's very informative. I'll buy one of these connectors and see if I can get it working straight from the line-outs. Thanks for the tip about the resistors. That never occurred to me. I need to do a little study about why resistors are the right thing to use there and not diodes.

[rjsilva]

For my own organ I ended up switching to two sets of Klipsch Ultra 5.1 systems with the satellites upgraded to Klipsch's RSX line. That gave me 10 channels to work with.

On first impression it seems like a 5.1 ‘computer' system wouldn't be good enough for an organ. However, Klipsch's RSX line are part of their Reference series, and the dual-8” sub is easily able to put out strong 16' stops. I had previously been using large Walker speakers which were very nice, but the Klipsch RSX have a gentler sound more appropriate for my particular room and setup (I did keep the Walker B2 for the 32' stops).

If you used this setup you could keep your 8 channels and have a very small speaker footprint.

Pros:

- 5 independent channels per system.
- Extremely small footprint—I have two subs and 10 RSX speakers on top of my organ.
- Sound is good quality (with upgraded satellites).

Cons:

- You can only find used systems now, and you'll likely need to get the amp serviced and upgraded (approx. $160 for quality work offered on eBay).
- The default Ultra 5.1 satellites are low quality and you need to replace them (RSX-3 are an ideal option), and finding enough RSX satellites for a decent price can be tedious.
- They can't be setup to turn on with a relay power supply.

[farnsy]

This is exactly the type of system I was thinking about in #1 or #2 above: high quality but small home theater,bookshelf, or computer speakers. I'm glad to hear a good suggestion. Usually a system like that actually takes 5 inputs (center, front RL, rear RL) and does it's own low-pass filtering so there are not really separate channels for the sub. Is that correct? How did you solve it (or does your organ not separate out the low frequency stuff into their own channels)?

Did you ever try mixing to stereo before doing the separate channels? I'm just trying to get a handle on how 6 small speakers and two subs would compare to a much larger 2.1 system. In other words, how large is the penalty for not utilizing the separate channels?

[rjsilva]

The Ultra 5.1 does both things actually. It has a separate input for the sub (6 inputs— front L/R, rear L/R, and centre/sub) and also uses a low pass filter for the satellites and puts those frequencies into the sub.

With the internal sounds of my organ I can easily switch between 2 to 12 channel outputs. I can say that even going from 4 to 10 channels was a huge difference. It was like a different organ. But, I'm guessing the internal mixing circuitry isn't very good.

I use a VPO exclusively now since the internal sounds of my organ are not great. With GrandOrgue the improvement from 2 and 8 channels is very noticeable but not as profound as it is for the internal sounds on my organ. I can't comment on future releases of Organteq but if it were to utilise 8 channels instead of 4 the sound would also be a very nice improvement ;)

There is always going to be a loss mixing down to 2 channels. Whether you mind the loss only you can decide. But ... since you're using headphones you already know what that sounds like.

[farnsy]

I'm looking at these specifications and I see a few other line-out options for my organ. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough to know what these really are.

1. My organ has a pair of external reverb line outs that I can easily get to. Is this basically just the echos (so that I would pipe it directly to speakers) or is it a copy of the main sounds, so that it would need to go into an external reverb unit? If I don't use it, am I still getting reverb? I guess I don't know how organ reverb works--at the moment I hear little to no reverb in my headphones. But it might also be that my organ simply doesn't have much reverb built-in (I have reverb volume maximized in the organ settings but this model does not have a setting for reverb time or room).

2. I also have antiphonal left and right line outs. I understand that antiphonal channels are those to be placed at the back of the church. Are these effectively more channels so that this is actually a 10 channel organ? Or are antiphonal channels again just copies of what is being played, possibly for reverb reasons? Is there a benefit to adding those channels in a little room like mine?

Basically, does it make sense for me to use these additional 4 channels if I'm setting up my speaker system? I'm thinking if I buy two 5.1 systems that both have subwoofer-in lines, that would provide me just the right number of speakers to do the 8 main channels plus reverb and antiphonal. But since I don't understand the latter two I'm not sure if it's smart to add them to the system.

Sorry for the basic level of these questions.

[rjsilva]

Toodles knows a lot about Rodgers organs but I'm not sure if he visits this speaker thread...

My assumption is that antiphonal channels have a somewhat different function depending on the organ or installation. I think in a ‘proper‘ context they would be completely separate stops. But I know that not all organs or organ technicians handle it that way (for instance, the church I got my organ from had a Walker antiphonal board setup to simply output all channels to the rear of the church when activated, but with the prior Ahlborn Galanti organ the same board was used more independently).

It seems to me that the reverb channels could definitely be used with the extra 2 channels in two 5.1 systems.

[farnsy]

I'm going to construct some d-sub connectors that allow me to get these signals and I'll see how they sound. I need a 15 pin female for the I/O connectors, a 15 pin male for the main audio outs, a 9 pin male for the antiphonal or reverb. I guess it seems likely that I'll only use the reverb and not the antiphonal based on jbird's comments. I wonder if I can rig the antiphonal relay to turn something else on and off since there's a rocker for it. Maybe a computer or something.

[jbird604]

On a Rodgers of that type the antiphonal outputs are just an additional stereo pair to which you can direct some or all of the regular up-front channels using the tabs. Do you have a tab that says "swell to antiphonal" or "great to antiphonal?" When this tab is active, these channels are sent to the rear mix. Not something that would be very useful in a home installation, as it adds nothing musically to the organ, just lets you throw one or more divisions to the rear of the church when desired or to boost the reach of the organ tone in a large church.

I don't know what those "reverb outs" might carry. You should connect them to an amp and speakers and see if they are a ready-made mix of all channels. Would be interesting if they are, and would be just as good as any two-channel mix for you to send into your stereo or 2.1 sound system.

[farnsy]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I can imagine the reverb being an echo that, when given speakers, make things really nice. But if it's just a mixed down version of the overall, that's still useful. I could pipe it into a reverb unit and then to speakers and maybe get some nice effects. Unfortunately speakers, acoustics, and the organization of organ outputs are all things that are not part of my expertise. Yet.

I have a rocker that says "antiphonal on" but not one that sends swell or great there. I'll have to dig around in the manual and see if I can figure some of this stuff out. The problem is that the manual assumes I know lots of things that I don't, like what common practices are for antiphonal and how the reverb for organs like this work.

[farnsy]

Well, I constructed a 9-pin D-sub to test the antiphonal and reverb outputs and also a 15 pin to connect to the line-outs.

The line-outs sound good through one speaker; the other speaker is silent. I tried switching lines and it's clear that it's not the speaker's fault. I have checked the connections as well as I can but keep having the same result: only one line out is getting sound. There's still a small chance that it's my crazy wiring skills but I'm thinking maybe the line out is in mono mode or something.

For the antiphonal and reberb outs, both of them have the same problem: only one speaker makes sound. Moreover, the sound of both is EXTREMELY reverberant. I think both of these are meant to go alongside the main outs to add reverb to it...they don't seem to contain the main sounds. I'm not certain whether that may be a setting as well.

I have not yet gotten my 15 pin male connector yet, so I have not tried adding resistors and mixing down. However, if I can't figure out how to make this stereo, then I'm definitely going to end up using all 8 outs. Probably I'll get 10 speakers so I can have a couple of speakers with the reverb sounds. Interesting stuff. Anyone here a Rodgers genius and have an idea of what's going on with this stuff? Why are all three of by outs (line outs, reverb out, antiphonal out) in mono mode only?

[jbird604]

I'm certain that all these outputs SHOULD be giving you a stereo signal, so either something is physically wrong with your connector or the organ's audio processor board... OR ... a menu item has been intentionally altered...

All Rodgers organs of that series have a menu of some sort that appears in the LCD screen, but the way the menu is invoked varies among models. Check the user and service manuals to find out how it's brought up. Either a "Quick Menu" piston or pressing "Cancel" and pushing the power switch, or something.

Then you need to find the setup or service or audio menu, not sure how it's named on this model. But somewhere you can find a way to customize each individual output of the system. Each channel has its own bass, treble, level, and balance controls. Perhaps the antiphonal has been intentionally moved all the way into one channel by the previous users, though that would be a very odd thing to do.

And the amount of reverb present in each channel is also adjustable, so you should be able to adjust that if nothing is wrong with the audio board. The antiphonal should not contain any reverb at all unless it is intentionally mixed into that output, so search the menus and find out what it is that way.

Double check all your wires and make sure you have the right pins connected. It would be unheard of for any of the outputs to be mono by design. All Rodgers organs of that era are stereo -- that was the major selling point of the "PDI" system.

I still think it would be perfectly fine to use the headphone output as the source for adding a standard two-channel or 2.1 audio system. Nothing wrong with the headphone signal. Headphone outputs are what many VPO users tap into to drive an amp for their computer-driven systems (as I do myself).

But do search out the menus. They are essential to doing a proper setup.

[farnsy]

Thanks, John. I think I finally have all this stuff figured out. Turns out I was having more than one problem.

The first problem is that my wiring of the speakers was poor. That's why I was only getting mono. I cut into some TS wires and twisted the shield wires together, but I *think* there was one tiny stray that ended up touching the signal wires and shorting it out. I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, I recut the wires and redid all connections and now both left and right channels work fine. It's always user error, isn't it?

Now the line-out lines work with my JBL speakers and sound good. I haven't installed my subwoofer yet (I'm not sure it will fit on top of or next to the organ) but I'll try that later.

I finally figured out how to work the voicing menu too. It allows the turning on and off of the channels in the reverb, antiphonal, and main speakers but the interface isn't 100% intuitive nor explained well in the service manual. I reset it to what seemed like sane defaults to me...probably I'll revisit and see if there are even better ones. It turns out that the reverb sounds still come through the antiphonal channel even if the "antiphonal on" rocker is off. So you only get reverb, which is what I was hearing before. But if you turn it on (at least, the way I have it set up now) then both the main sounds and the reverb come through the antiphonal speaker and it sounds really good through my JBL speakers. The reverb on this organ isn't real sophisticated--you can't set the size of the room, for example--but it sounds a lot better wet than dry.

Actually it turns out that the "antiphonal on" and "main off" rockers don't mean what they say. Basically with different combinations of them being on and off, you have four different audio configurations, which you can set to whatever you want--different channel assignments, different audio levels, etc. That was a surprise, but good to know.

The reverb channel is only sending reverb through at the moment. I'm not certain if I can change this or if I want to. It also has a separate pin (9) that is marked as "composite signal." Not sure what that is and haven't tested. The pin is labeled in the manual but I see no description of what it is for.

I also got the 15 pin dsub that connects to the 8 main channels. I tested them and they sound great. I mean, I tested them two at a time.

So now I have everything working in a way that I understand. If I end up using the 10 channels (8 plus 2 reverb) for speakers as suggested above, I'll route the antiphonal to the inputs of my computer so I can record directly from the organ if I want. I just have to remember to set the antiphonal rocker if I'm recording.

Now I'm back to my original question: does it make sense for me to just continue using a 2.1 setup with this organ, or would I really benefit from buying a couple of 5.1 sets and using all 10 channels? Decisions, decisions. At least, in the meantime, I have an organ that works even if I'm not using headphones.

[jbird604]

Good detective work! I think if you dig deep enough you can figure out how to make the antiphonal output carry a standard stereo mix of the whole organ by default, that is without having any of the main/antiphonal controls lit up. As you found, the antiphonal/main controls actually switch among a set of four "audio maps" that can be stored in the system. The guy I used to work with on setting up Rodgers organs was fond of setting these maps so that having Main Off but not turning the Antiphonal On would result in a split audio arrangement, with just one division in the rear of the church and the others playing up front. After you figure out how this is done, you can create all manner of customized arrangements with these four maps.

[iPlayKeys]

The more speakers, the better, even if they're smaller. It's about having as many sound sources as possible. The other thing I would suggest is putting them as far away from you as possible, and clustered into divisions so the sound can mix in the room before it gets to your ears.

[farnsy]

I've been playing this organ quite a bit over the last few days and really enjoying it. It's just a 2.1 setup right now with studio monitors, but it's very enjoyable. Sounds like I'm using headphones, basically. Still waiting for my HD 650 headphones to arrive, by the way. Though my organ isn't close to any bedrooms and these speakers can be quiet, so I'm not sure how much I'll end up using headphones. I have a paranoia about headphones causing hearing damage.

It seems to be universally accepted here that you have to use separate speakers for all your channels. Today I decided to go ahead and take the plunge: I bought four more JBL 305P monitors--they aren't that expensive, really. I'll have to turn them on their side and stack them on the organ to make the setup work. So that's a 6.1 system. I only have one subwoofer and have not purchased a second one--this woofer takes stereo inputs, so I will be able to use all 8 audio channels, but it's not clear to what degree the two low frequency channels may interfere with each other. I'll have to look into that later. I have room to stack two enormous 310S woofers, I guess, but I question whether it's needed.

As a reminder, Rodgers technology at this time (or maybe at all times) doesn't split notes across channels. Instead I believe each note is stereo sampled. There's a channel pair for each register, with the pedal sharing one, plus all low frequencies are routed to the subwoofer pair.

One thing I notice is that there is little to no reverb in my current audio (pulling from the line-outs). I'm uncertain whether this will change when I start using the 8 channels it's meant to use. There is, of course, a separate channel pair for reverb that I can use, but I'd rather not add yet another pair of monitors to this setup. The voicing menu where this type of thing is setup, presumably, is extremely unintuitive and there isn't much in the service or user's manual to clarify. I haven't determined any settings that audibly change the reverb in the line-outs. I had originally been thinking of buying an effects module to add reverb. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. You can always buy more stuff.

Actually I kind of wish the music stand was wire or wood instead of acrylic. I could probably put speakers behind the music stand. Maybe?

At present I'm running the signal directly from the D-sub coming out of the cage to TS cables that connect to my speakers. After I get this all set up, it's my intention to install a computer inside the organ (where the amp used to be) for VPO stuff and for recording my Rodgers sounds. I know how to do all that in a 2.1 context but I'll have to figure out what to do with the 6.2 setup I will be installing shortly. I may actually run the 2 line-outs into my computer for recording in stereo. I am not sure whether to run the computer's output into the line-in ports of the organ or to run them directly to the speakers somehow. Lots of tech decisions to be made.

[jbird604]

Thanks for the updates. Interesting project. As you surmise, the "stereo" sampling doesn't split notes between the channels, though I "think" I recall hearing the occasional stop (chimes) with C-C# division, and I'm pretty sure the celeste stops are divided left/right.

The amount of reverb in the signal is surely adjustable in the menu. I have heard many Rodgers setups of that vintage with copious amounts of reverb. It's bound to be in the menu, but you are correct that the menus can be obscure and confusing.

[Sweet Pete]

An untreated room can have lots of speakers and still suffer from acoustic 'untruths'.Play in the sanctuary and enjoy the space? Recreating that with headphones is impossible!
Another take on it is ceiling,wall,floor treatments that look good and work.Might get away with less speakers in a treated environment.My modest home setup includes only a Hammond
and Nord Stage3 along with synth modules,mainly analog.I use nearfield 5" powered boxes up top and some Meyer UPM's on the floor.Smaller space than yours,sounds 'truthful' though.
I know this because I compare pro recorded sources(CD/vinyl) to my own mixes exported to a PC to check at 48/96 resolution!On the lip of many theatre stages and under balconies etc
you want the truth.And that truth is Meyer UPM's!Still in production after twenty years.

[farnsy]

Yeah, I'm interested in treating that room but I'm not sure what good treatment really is for a music room. I have a lot of noisy kids so I have a bunch of 2" sound absorbing panels (2'x4' mostly) around the house to cut down the echos. They help a lot with that. But don't people want a kind of live room for the music? You can kind of see what I have in my initial picture. A very live room. There's a decently large space outside of the room with a bunch of sound absorbing panels. I have a few panels I could put in the room if that would help it. The problem is simply that I don't know what the goal is. Cutting down echos from my kids is straightforward and easily measured. But what is a good piano/organ room acoustic?

[farnsy]

Ok, I purchased some more speakers and configured the organ as seen in this picture.



I'm now using the main speaker outputs instead of the "line out." I will use the latter as an input to a computer that I will install inside the console for recording, VPO work, and potentially online lessons.

This is an 8 channel organ and I currently have two channels going into the sub. I haven't noticed a problem with that but I'm not sure I would know what to listen for at those frequencies. The bottom speakers do primarily the choir, the middle are great and pedal, and the top speakers are the swell. At the moment I have a little bit of shelf liner under each speaker so they don't touch each other (although it is only one layer thick).

I'm intending to run the output of the computer to the line-ins of this organ. Hopefully the organ will then send the stereo line-in sound to all 8 speakers. Actually as I set it up I didn't pay really good attention to sides so I'm not 100% sure all the "right" side speakers are on the right and "left" are on the left. It's not all that obvious when playing at the moment.

I would describe the sound as a lot more powerful (at the same volume) and room-filling than it was. Somehow this is most obvious in the bass, which is odd because I already had the subwoofer in place when I was using two speakers.

When using the main outs the effect of the antiphonal rocker is that it adds reverb to an otherwise dry sound. I believe this is something that can be configured but I still haven't gotten the voicing menu figured out. Actually I kind of like it like this: it's dry unless I choose it to have reverb. I do wish I had control over the reberb room characteristics but I don't seem to. I can control reverb volume only (different reverb lengths were added in the 905B, but this is the original 905).

I'm also very proud of running the speakers and lighting through a relay that turns off when the organ does. No standby power being consumed here!

I'm still interested in opinions and input on the setup.

For example, I placed the speakers in an alternating fashion on a whim. I'm not sure there is any advantage or disadvantage to this. I have heard people say in some cases you shouldn't put monitors on their side. Do you think there's a better physical configuration than what you see here? I guess I could build a shelf or something and put four speakers on it and two on the organ, all vertically (for example).

I'd also be interested in whether there's a need for a second sub. This sub has two inputs but if they really shouldn't both be played on the same device, I could imagine putting a second one on top. Subs are a bit more pricey than the speakers (I was able to get these speakers for $100 each) but I could do it.

Appreciate all the opinions and advice I've received here.

[jbird604]

You might find the sound more pleasing if the speakers were not aimed directly at your ears. This doesn't always hold true in a home setting, but in a church installation we try to aim the speakers so the sound bounces off a hard surface such as an adjacent wall or even the ceiling. I have installed some of my own home organs with the speakers on their backs facing up at the ceiling, which may make the sound less harsh and direct and more diffuse and broad.

My current home organ of course is a VPO, and most VPO people do place their speakers more or less as you have them -- facing directly toward the player on the bench. This is appropriate for a VPO because the system is basically playing back pure recordings and you want to receive the direct sound right in your ears.

So you could try aiming the speakers out to the side or otherwise directing them away from your ears and see if that improves it. That's just one possibility. They could also be placed somewhere else entirely, but that may not be feasible in your space. Good work getting all eight channels working. That really brings out the best in an organ like this.