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  • Leslie 145/147

    So, I bought this for £600 last night.

    No idea about these things, played the guys L100 through it. When it’s on slow, sounds totally fine.

    when it’s on fast, the moving parts become noisy.

    intending on stripping it all out so that I can take care of the woodwork. Put back together and then get it serviced?

    can y’all have a look as see if there’s anything that looks non-original, or out of place. Any advice before taking the motors and speakers out beforehand also appreciated.
    Last edited by myorgan; 11-24-2021, 07:26 AM. Reason: Fix spelling of Lesley

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    • #3

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      • #4
        Both speakers lower and upper are not original. Lower it's a Black Widow Peavey speaker. The horn driver hard to read what that is but it's not a Jensen V21, has been "adapted" to the horn plate and hard to tell what's going on there. We would wonder if it's even 16ohms (either speaker) as it should be. The crossover looks like it could be original 'soapbar' capacitor with the coils but it's missing the mounting ring housing and cover unless they sent them from the factory like that that I've never seen.. The speaker wire to the Peavey speaker is not original but it looks like they terminated it properly to the Jones plug on the amp. The amp has no front mounting bushings and screws including the mounting plate. Can't say for the rear of the amp what's going on there if it has the mounting bushings, plate and the wall connector plate.

        At least you have Tungsol 6550's and the amp needs a cleaning.

        Underneath is another matter and if you show a photo of the underside some of the forum's master techs will know what's off under there.

        I surmise the Leslie is used to the power voltage in your area? And if the motor pulleys are set for the Hz(50? 60?) of your power grid.

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        • #5

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            • #7
              The horn driver is a Celestion DC-100, and looking closely, you can see "8 Ohm" on it. It's not uncommon for people to put the wrong drivers in Leslie cabinets, not understanding the impedance issues. The original horn driver and woofer were both 16 Ohm.

              With the stock crossover and 16 Ohm drivers, the crossover point is 800Hz. If you halve the impedance to 8 Ohms, the horn driver's effective crossover point becomes more like 1,600Hz, and the woofer's crossover point becomes 400Hz, so you end up with a hole in the middle between 400 and 1,600Hz. People often swapped drivers because they wanted the Leslie to be louder in the old days when many clubs didn't have decent PA systems.

              The amp's output transformer is also designed for a 16 Ohm load. While running an 8 Ohm load won't hurt it, the power transfer is not optimal.
              `
              It doesn't look to me that there was ever a 16 Ohm diaphragm option for the DC-100 horn driver, so I don't see a possibility of swapping it for a voice coil of the right impedance. I can't tell what the woofer impedance is, but I would bet it's also 8 Ohms because that's simply a more common value.

              The original horn driver was the Jensen V-21. The Atlas PD-5VH is a similar-sounding substitute.

              In terms of current-production woofers, I prefer the Jensen C15K. Many people use the Eminence Delta 15B, but I don't like it as much as the C15K. Or you can find vintage Leslie woofers like the 16 Ohm Jensen C15L or OEM Utah driver.

              Leslies that are noisy on fast often have worn-out lower drum bushings. They are still readily available, and the rubber grommets that need to go inside them are available from Trek II. At this point in history, replacing the drum bearings has become a very common maintenance issue. Some people do open the originals up and re-grease them, but they aren't that expensive.
              I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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              • #8
                Peavey is also 8 ohms. 😭😭😭

                I asked the guy selling if the speakers were original and got “oh yes, absolutely”.

                I’ll be using this in a studio so having a lot volume isn’t an issue. I’m after tone more than anything. I record for lots of different styles, so I want to be able to overdrive it as well as having it sound sweet.

                does that change the new speaker recommendations?

                sounds like my main issue just now is the impedance.

                swap out the speakers, fix the bush, good old clean.

                anything else you guys can see?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by worldcassmusician View Post
                  I asked the guy selling if the speakers were original and got “oh yes, absolutely”.
                  Sadly, this happens all the time. Some sellers simply don't know and may have bought the cabinet as it is, so they assume themselves that the components are original. Some know the speakers aren't original, but if they think the buyer is ignorant, will lie to make the sale and avoid any negotiation on price. Welcome to the world of used musical instrument sales. Someone I know recently bought a 147 cabinet and was told it was all in good working order. In reality, it needed major work on motors, amp, etc... Even the woofer was damaged and had to be reconed.

                  If you had said, "I want to check the speakers to make sure they are original," he might have behaved differently.

                  If you want the correct vintage tone, you need original type or similar replacement drivers. The horn driver is crucial. You have more choices in woofers.

                  Amp skids and grommets can be sourced from places like Tonewheel General Hospital or some UK equivalent is there is any, and you need a 7/8" 10-24 thread screw to hold it down.

                  I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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                  • #10
                    Is it a good idea to fit castors? Is this going to change the bottom end response with it not sitting on the ground.

                    I can see me moving this in and out of a vocal booth especially on the occasions that I’m driving it hard.

                    Speaker wise, I’ve read good things about the Atlas PD-5

                    what don’t you like about the eminence speaker compared to the Jensen

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                    • Lazlo
                      Lazlo commented
                      Editing a comment
                      My own experience with an Eminence in a 145 I used to own, was that the Eminence doesn't give you the same bottom as the Jensen original and sounds a bit anaemic - but this is specifically in relation to playing bass pedals and left hand bass at 808000000.

                  • #11
                    Originally posted by worldcassmusician View Post

                    I’ll be using this in a studio so having a lot volume isn’t an issue. I’m after tone more than anything. I record for lots of different styles, so I want to be able to overdrive it as well as having it sound sweet.

                    does that change the new speaker recommendations?

                    sounds like my main issue just now is the impedance.




                    If you want a faithful Leslie sound and animation the original factory woofers will work best with rotor ramps and tone. You're more than likely to get some overdrive (ala Booker T's Green Onions) with a 16 ohm speaker than an 8 as the amp will be in its range. The Jensen P15LL or the Utah as mentioned will maintain the sound. Not every speaker reacts well under a rotor. It's like cupping one's hands around one's mouth, the tone changes. And as the rotor spins up/down certain frequencies will be lost or accentuated making it un-Leslie like. For some reason the factory originals got it right the first time. Not every 15 inch recreates the classic Leslie lower rotor frequency/animation even if the impedance is 16 ohms.

                    https://reverb.com/item/34641284-jen...-ohms-tube-amp

                    Bring it back to stock and then you'll have a better chance of getting what you want.

                    https://reverb.com/item/34641356-jen...-ohms-tube-amp

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                    • worldcassmusician
                      worldcassmusician commented
                      Editing a comment
                      How about the little speaker? The atlas a good choice ?

                  • #12
                    Originally posted by worldcassmusician View Post
                    Is it a good idea to fit castors? Is this going to change the bottom end response with it not sitting on the ground.

                    I can see me moving this in and out of a vocal booth especially on the occasions that I’m driving it hard.


                    I would suggest making a dolly (or a tray like the ones on flight cases) for the wheels rather than drilling into the cabinet. This way you'll have a choice if you want it on the ground. Plus it avoids compromising the cabinet as it is older now. There are a lot of dollies ready made or you can make them yourself.

                    https://images.uline.com/is/image/co...1&icc=AdobeRGB

                    https://www.guitar-auctions.co.uk/pu.../77/626-20.JPG

                    Last edited by Goff; 11-24-2021, 11:30 AM.

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                    • #13
                      worldcassmusician commented
                      Today, 02:27 AM
                      How about the little speaker? The atlas a good choice ?
                      Yes as mentioned the Atlas PD-5VH would be a closer choice than the larger Atlas PD-60A .

                      I have the Atlas PD-5VH in my 122 as back in the 'day' it was backline for concerts and more likely to survive a show and although brighter and not exactly like a V21 it's workable.

                      There are a lot of V21's out there too.

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                      • #14
                        There are plenty of carpet-padded furniture dollies that work fine for rolling Leslies around the studio. The downside with caster wheels is that they can sometimes rattle at audio frequencies. Most are OK, but it can happen. If you want a dolly that fits the Leslie exactly, you can cut a piece of plywood the same size as the base of the Leslie and attach caster wheels to it. And if you want it snugly connected to the Leslie, the Leslie originally came (or did in the U.S.) with two 1/4" thread t-nuts in the bottom panel for shipping skids. You can use these to attach your own base to the cabinet. No need for any modifications.

                        Like Goff says, you can still find V-21 horn drivers around.

                        My preference for the Jensen C15K vs. the Eminence 15B is one of subtle differences between the two speakers. It's hard to put into words, but the C15K sounds "right" to me, as in "this is what a Leslie is supposed to sound like."

                        In technical terms, the C15K is a tighter speaker with a full paper surround, like all the originals Leslie used, while the Eminence has an accordion edge and a looser suspension. With a bass reflex cabinet, you actually want a tighter speaker.

                        It would be nice to find a Jensen P15LL, but they have gotten pretty expensive.
                        I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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                        • #15
                          Thanks so much for all the replies. Yeah, I think a little portable dolly as needed is what I’ll do.

                          I think I’m going to put an Atlas PD-5VH and a Jensen C15K into it.

                          Does the Amp look as it should? I posted a pic of the underside above. Lookout for the next question - connecting to an A100 🤣😂

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