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Leslie 125 Replacement 12" Speaker

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Miro View Post

    You mention the Jensen P15LL, which is definitely not what I have in my Leslie 125...but the one in the link you provided is a Jensen C12N from what I can make out.
    I don't know what my stock speaker is from the markings shown in the pictures...but I can certainly buy a new Jensen C12N if that's a good replacement for the Leslie 125...yes?
    Yes i understand you have something different. The reference of the P15LL is just that.. a reference and more than likely a touchstone. It was merely to impart how Leslies have special needs when it comes to speakers. And it's so easy for a "custom" approach to pop up like putting a supercharger in a VW and expect to win the race.

    Jensens are now made in Italy. Have no idea how those will react.

    Would rather go with the tried and true.

    You have a Utah? It's written in code on the edge of your basket.

    The first three numbers are 328? Hard to see as the first letter is on the edge.

    Willy nilly is not advisable in this economy.

    If you want to save money then take David's advice and patch up the holes. He's a speaker reconer.

    Last edited by Goff; 06-06-2022, 12:44 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Goff View Post

      Jensens are now made in Italy. Have no idea how those will react.

      Would rather go with the tried and true.

      .........

      Willy nilly is not advisable in this economy.
      I appreciate all the "must use vintage" sentiment...I know that's very important to a lot of folks, and I can respect that. I follow that approach most of the time where it really is critical.
      I'm not sure how critical it is with this speaker though.

      I don't want to use the stock speaker with repairs.
      The edge of the cone is disintegrating...one of those rips was from me simply touching the cone...it just let go instantly.
      Sure...I can send it out to get it re-coned...but TBH, I don't think that Utah speaker is some sonic marvel that can't be changed for fear of altering some spectacular tone it provided for the 125 Leslie.

      I have a Leslie 145 also...with the stock speakers, and it works fine, and it's the primary Leslie I will use.
      The 125 is just something that came with the M-100 I just got...and I don't think trying out other speakers is something that should be avoided, or that it will only bring unfavorable results.

      Since you posted a link to a C12N...I was asking if you thought that's a good substitute. AFA trying to find a vintage C12N...I can look for one to try and stay with the whole "must be vintage" thing, but I may have no choice but to get a new one.
      That said...I might still get the torn Utah re-coned...but for now, I'm looking for a current production substitute.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Miro View Post
        I don't think that Utah speaker is some sonic marvel that can't be changed for fear of altering some spectacular tone it provided for the 125 Leslie.
        I think you're entirely correct. There's nothing wrong with the Utah speaker, but there's nothing irreplaceable about it either. And if the speaker's surround has gotten to the point of being brittle as a potato chip, it may be beyond reasonable repair.

        If you want to replace it, I would definitely go with a speaker with extended high-end response. You definitely lose some highs with the sound bouncing off the drum and out through the louvers. I used a Jensen Electric Lighting speaker once in an application needing additional highs and liked it. It has good response out to 7kHz, which is very good for a 12" speaker, most of which have a peak from 2k-4k and fall off rapidly above that. It has similar high-sensitivity to the Celestion mentioned above (99dB).
        I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Miro View Post

          I appreciate all the "must use vintage" sentiment...I know that's very important to a lot of folks, and I can respect that. I follow that approach most of the time where it really is critical.
          I'm not sure how critical it is with this speaker though.

          I don't want to use the stock speaker with repairs.
          The edge of the cone is disintegrating...one of those rips was from me simply touching the cone...it just let go instantly.
          Sure...I can send it out to get it re-coned...but TBH, I don't think that Utah speaker is some sonic marvel that can't be changed for fear of altering some spectacular tone it provided for the 125 Leslie.

          I have a Leslie 145 also...with the stock speakers, and it works fine, and it's the primary Leslie I will use.
          The 125 is just something that came with the M-100 I just got...and I don't think trying out other speakers is something that should be avoided, or that it will only bring unfavorable results.

          Since you posted a link to a C12N...I was asking if you thought that's a good substitute. AFA trying to find a vintage C12N...I can look for one to try and stay with the whole "must be vintage" thing, but I may have no choice but to get a new one.
          That said...I might still get the torn Utah re-coned...but for now, I'm looking for a current production substitute.
          The link was a photo of what I understand to be a factory Jensen. It says made in Chicago so we must assume that's an original Leslie factory Jensen for the 125. I can't post images directly because I'm over my allotted number of photos. Hence the link to make sure the image won't just disappear over time making the post useless. I'm not really familiar with the 125.

          I know Sal A used to tell me those models ramp real slow.

          All I know is these factory speakers provide the classic sound.

          Now if you want to sound like Goldy on Born To Be Wild feel free to experiment and get that broken Lowery tone.

          It's up to you what you want to do. You have some opinions now weigh them.

          For one thing you'll keep the value with the original speaker in there. The next owner might appreciate it. That's if you don't chop it up and make a two rotor out of it. With a 12" I'm thinking it'll be a gamble. But if money's no object...

          Looking for a current substitute for a 125 is going to be an experiment. Only you know what you like.

          Don't know of many who choose the 125 (except for maybe a guitar by noobies) which makes options for a replacement speaker an unknown.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Goff View Post
            Don't know of many who choose the 125 (except for maybe a guitar by noobies) which makes options for a replacement speaker an unknown.
            As I said...thje 125 was part of the Hammond M-100/Leslie 125 bundle I recently bought for a very reasonable amount that included delivery to my house.
            Knowing I already had a 145...the 125 could have come non-functioning, and I wouldn't have turned down the deal. I was more interested in the M-100.

            My initial thoughts about what to do with the 125 were that it could be a spare, and the cabinet was in a little better shape than the 145...or I could use it for guitar, since I have one of those Leslie Preamp pedals...so it's an easy connection. The 125 cab is a match for the M-100...a dark cherry, where my 145 is like a medium oak stain, but the 145 matches my L-100 which I've had for about 17 years now.

            So I'm really not that concerned about the 125, but it works, it's clean, only the speaker needs to be sorted out. I have some guitar speakers I can try with it just because they are available, but the closer I looked at the Jensen C12N specs, it has a better extended range above 5k Hz than most guitar speakers...though it doesn't get out to 10k Hz like the Celestion K12H-100TC or 200TC speakers.
            Heck...I may try the guitar speakers, and get both the Jensen C12N and one of the Celestions, probably the 100W model, the K12H-100TC...and maybe even go ahead and get the Utah re-coned. I amp absolutely NOT concerned about what the "next owner" will think of my speaker choice.
            I love experimenting rather than just accepting one choice.

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            • #21
              FWIW, I have two drivers removed from a 120 and 110 we converted to dual rotor with 15s. I’m sure one is a Utah, not sure of the other, both are serviceable. With freight charges, etc. I’m not sure they are of practical use but I do have them :)
              Tom in Tulsa

              Fooling with: 1969 E100, 1955 M3, 1963 M100, Leslie 720

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              • #22
                Originally posted by tpappano View Post
                FWIW, I have two drivers removed from a 120 and 110 we converted to dual rotor with 15s. I’m sure one is a Utah, not sure of the other, both are serviceable. With freight charges, etc. I’m not sure they are of practical use but I do have them :)
                Appreciate that...but I'm kind set now with what I will do.
                I just thought I should ask here if there was some very specific go-to replacement speakers that people were choosing...just to save on some experimentation...but as noted...changing out the speaker on the 125 is 5 minutes...actually less time than when I do speaker shoot outs for my guitar cabs!!! :-D

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Miro View Post

                  As I said...thje 125 was part of the Hammond M-100/Leslie 125 bundle I recently bought for a very reasonable amount that included delivery to my house.
                  Knowing I already had a 145...the 125 could have come non-functioning, and I wouldn't have turned down the deal. I was more interested in the M-100.

                  My initial thoughts about what to do with the 125 were that it could be a spare, and the cabinet was in a little better shape than the 145...or I could use it for guitar, since I have one of those Leslie Preamp pedals...so it's an easy connection. The 125 cab is a match for the M-100...a dark cherry, where my 145 is like a medium oak stain, but the 145 matches my L-100 which I've had for about 17 years now.

                  So I'm really not that concerned about the 125, but it works, it's clean, only the speaker needs to be sorted out. I have some guitar speakers I can try with it just because they are available, but the closer I looked at the Jensen C12N specs, it has a better extended range above 5k Hz than most guitar speakers...though it doesn't get out to 10k Hz like the Celestion K12H-100TC or 200TC speakers.
                  Heck...I may try the guitar speakers, and get both the Jensen C12N and one of the Celestions, probably the 100W model, the K12H-100TC...and maybe even go ahead and get the Utah re-coned. I amp absolutely NOT concerned about what the "next owner" will think of my speaker choice.
                  I love experimenting rather than just accepting one choice.
                  What I meant was I don't hear too much about 125's. To me it's something held over from a section of owners who didn't want much out of a rig. Hence you're inheritance going after the M-100.

                  Looking at speaker specs and then trying to apply it to a Leslie cabinet like one would a regular speaker cabinet is not cut and dried IMO. That's why I intimated however Leslie figured out what speakers to put in these rotary cabinets, no one seems to know what were the guides or specs other than impedance. What specific free air resonance, spectrum curve what have you and a host of other parameters I for one have never seen a list.

                  Remember you are loading a speaker into an unorthodox mounting system. Quoting frequency response does not automatically equate a compliance when the speaker is not front firing but down firing and through a rotating funnel. And then that funnel is in a certain cabinet and is below the ear while the Doppler is away from the ear and behind the speaker expecting to be bouncing off a wall.

                  Expecting the best of all worlds is a goose chase IMO .

                  For that matter you might want to try a coax 12.

                  But what will the ramps sound like?

                  Eventually it dawned on Leslie to add a treble rotor for high frequencies. Many times I think what Leslie invented was one of those "eureka" discoveries and quite by accident. And then it just so happened to click. For all the many "also rans" in the rotary cabinet department only a Leslie and a choice few of his speakers made it.

                  The best Leslie is A LESLIE everything else sounds quirky. And the way the most popular Leslies were designed they pretty much got it right the first time. Long ways from Leslie's fan in a wall invention.

                  Lots of players experimented. Gregg Rolie created monster Leslies during his time. In the end he went back to the stock Leslie. Although he became an endorser for Ham-Suz so he'd be seen sporting one of those digital organs with a 3300.

                  As far as the next owner is concerned, yeah it's easy to say it's mine I'll do what I want.

                  I've always imagined we're just custodians of these not made any more instruments. But that's just me.

                  If I have no proper use for an instrument I would let go of it to someone who wanted the normal use of such.

                  We see it all the time. Instruments getting the "what was this person thinking" treatment.

                  You would have to make a choice. Ramps or being able to hear more highs out of a deflection speaker?

                  And for what instrument?

                  I doubt both can be had in a 125.

                  Now a Vibratone is another story specially for guitar. It's side/front firing so you're likely to hear more highs and the vents are not going behind the cabinet away from the ear as the rotor turns like a ferris wheel, not a merry-go-round away from the listener.

                  That's the best guitar Leslie IMO and once again Leslie got it right the first time on that.




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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Goff View Post
                    Eventually it dawned on Leslie to add a treble rotor for high frequencies.
                    From the very first 30A cabinet, Leslies had horn drivers and treble rotors and woofers. They were intended for Hammond Organs with a frequency range from 30Hz to 6,000Hz. Don Leslie understood that no single speaker could cover that range adequately, so he choose a 15" woofer and a horn driver. Even in 1940, a horn driver and a woofer combined with a passive crossover was not an unusual choice.

                    It was ~18 years later that Leslie first offered cabinets like the Model 25 that lacked horns. It was an obvious attempt to produce a lower-cost cabinet for home spinet use by omitting the horn driver, crossover, and upper motor, and making the internal power amp optional. And the amp design is, frankly, not very good with the output tube screens run at full B+ voltage at a time when people already knew that this was not a great idea.

                    So the 25/125 cabinets were a compromise design where you don't get the interaction between horn and woofer. I know people who use them, but I don't feel compelled to wax poetic about them. They are what they are: a lower-cost model lacking the features of the more expensive models.

                    I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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                    • #25
                      I know we are just vamping about these speakers so I will add my bit. The 125 and 145 are compatible with a 6W connection. I have linked them together, as some 125 have the extra speaker plug, with a power relay. Separate the two cabinets for the room space, I liked one on each side of me kinda like Texas headphones! As the speakers were balanced volume wise they still sounded very unique and different from each other. best sound my spinet ever made.

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                      • #26
                        Experimenters unite. Always wanted to know what these would sound like in a down/side firing rotor.


                        https://radianaudio.com/products/531...oaxial-speaker


                        After mulling over it (years of mulling) I think the highs would bleed past the rotor and would not get affected by ramp and whatever lows would get emphasized or not remains to be seen.

                        Again what's the intended instrument?

                        Maybe If a proper cross over with a per octave slope (per instrument..guitar?) were laboriously designed to tame things for ramp...

                        And THEN if the wattage these are capable of gets used the ramps would get clobbered from the sheer volume.

                        Still a gamble and an expensive one at that.

                        I have a pair of these as studio monitors in custom cabs. Copied an Electronic Musician article where the author wanted to make portable soffit monitors he could carry around. They are bright. Might need a pad like the old Altec attenuators to bring down the horn.

                        They're made for sound reinforcement, monitors.

                        They were half the price back when I made the soffit monitors in 1999.

                        https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...g?v=1565115301

                        When one attends a concert one hears speakers like these, not really the vintage guitar amp or Leslie.

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                        • #27
                          That's a lot of money! I know of people in the UK who have re-speakered 120 and 125 cabinets with something like this:

                          https://cpc.farnell.com/celestion/k1...rms/dp/LS04188

                          Rather easier on the pocket and the feedback I got from the owners was positive.
                          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by andyg View Post
                            That's a lot of money! I know of people in the UK who have re-speakered 120 and 125 cabinets with something like this:

                            https://cpc.farnell.com/celestion/k1...rms/dp/LS04188

                            Rather easier on the pocket and the feedback I got from the owners was positive.
                            Yeah that looks like it might fit the bill. Synchronicity on the use of a coax.

                            Here's another more easy on the wallet. Not sure how it would sound in the rotor spot but worth a try to see how it fares.

                            https://www.avgearshop.com/selenium-12c02p-speaker.html

                            Comment


                            • #29

                              Originally posted by kzinkmusic View Post
                              I know we are just vamping about these speakers so I will add my bit. The 125 and 145 are compatible with a 6W connection. I have linked them together, as some 125 have the extra speaker plug, with a power relay. Separate the two cabinets for the room space, I liked one on each side of me kinda like Texas headphones! As the speakers were balanced volume wise they still sounded very unique and different from each other. best sound my spinet ever made.
                              Yeah...I've wondered how I could hook both the 125 and 145 to one of my Hammonds...either M-100 or L-100...both use the same Leslie connection adapter box, with only a single Leslie connection. I think it would be a nice option for the studio to have two Leslie cabs going that you can mic, and then have different option when mixing.

                              Originally posted by Goff View Post
                              Experimenters unite. Always wanted to know what these would sound like in a down/side firing rotor.
                              After mulling over it (years of mulling)
                              Well...I only mull for a little bit, and then I go to hands-on experimentation. I find it's much easier to try out some options, instead of endlessly mulling about them.


                              Originally posted by andyg View Post
                              That's a lot of money! I know of people in the UK who have re-speakered 120 and 125 cabinets with something like this:

                              https://cpc.farnell.com/celestion/k1...rms/dp/LS04188

                              Rather easier on the pocket and the feedback I got from the owners was positive.
                              Yes...that model speaker was mentioned in the second post...which precipitated some of the negative views about using anything but the original speaker.
                              I considered that one (either the 100TC or the 200TC...same thing, different wattage)...and I also was thinking about the Jensen C12N which shows a good range into the highs. Unlike many guitar speakers, the highs don't just drop off a cliff after 4k-5k Hz.
                              I ended up buying a Jensen C12N last night...got one for $77 shipped! You can't beat that.
                              If it doesn't please me...I'll try the Celestion K12H 100TC next...plus I have a few guitar speakers in boxes, so I can also try them.

                              You can't know how something will sound until you actually try it. :-)

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                              • #30
                                Get a power relay like this and two, 6 pin cords, then just daisy-chain them together.

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