Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sequencers revisited

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • voet
    started a topic Sequencers revisited

    Sequencers revisited

    I searched the archives for articles about sequencers and the last postings are from 10 years ago. At that time SD Midi Controller and Organ Assist looked promising.

    Not mentioned in that series of posts is Syndye's Pro-Filer. This seems to offer some good basic capability, but the only price I found on line is $957 which seems like a lot of money for what it does.

    If any of you can share your experiences with currently available sequencers I would really appreciate it.

  • Victor Jules
    replied
    Has anybody tried Aria Maestosa? Just did a little experimenting with it sitting at desk -- wrote a few notes but couldn't then figure out how to send the track back to the beginning or play it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leisesturm
    replied
    Actually the MR-200 also uses floppy disk storage despite being a much newer piece of equipment than the PR300. I haven't seen either one up close, but I've seen two MR-200 for sale online. I have sent the particulars to my Trustee Committee for consideration, but while looking for an MR-200 I came across a program called Organ Assist! I am very intrigued with this program. So much so that I contacted its author and got a very warm and informative email in response. It appears to need a good deal of setup in return for a drop dead easy record/play back routine once over the setup hump. And you are working with whatever laptop platform is comfortable to you. And its free ...
    https://www.organassist.com/wp/
    Last edited by Leisesturm; 02-01-2019, 09:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kurzweil
    replied
    As long as one has no keen prejudice against them, floppy disks work as well as they always have. As stated earlier, the MIDI files are extremely small enabling dozens to be stored on one 1.44 MB disk. Their reliability only becomes an issue when recorded disks sit around for a long time (many years). Anything recorded today will play for several years and can always be transferred to a hard drive via an inexpensive USB floppy drive.

    While they may not be readily available for new purchase, I would venture to say that within your church there are simply dozens, if not hundreds, moldering away in various drawers of various parishioners. And you only need about three. And a machine that uses floppies should be very "attractively priced". Both Yamaha and Roland made such machines in the late 80's to early 90's. USB is what ultimately supplanted floppies and the Roland Atelier line didn't make the jump until 2007, incredibly. So it isn't THAT far back in many cases.

    Leave a comment:


  • jbird604
    replied
    My sequencer is one made by Allen just for Allen organs. It has an infrared remote control that I can use from the rear of the church to start the processional remotely. The sequencer itself sits on top of the console. Not sure Rodgers has anything just like this though.

    Any modern unit will record everything you do as you play, including notes, stops, pistons, and expression. I think the old PR300 that Rodgers sold for years does all that, but floppy disk storage may be a problem. And I don't know that it has a remote control. Someone might have to press the Play button for you.

    Roland's MR200 is more modern and might be a good choice. Should work perfectly with that organ.

    Leave a comment:


  • samibe
    commented on 's reply
    Good point. That looks like an awesome organ to play and the MIDI implementation looks complete. You might have to change some of the settings for MIDI in the QuickMenu so that the organ will send and receive information for the notes, shoes, and stops. I don't think the MIDI pistons would do anything as far as a sequencer is concerned (they seem to control the additional voices in the build in MIDI box). I think a Rodgers sequencer would be nearly plug and play.
    Generally, the trickiest part of midi is making sure everything is communicating correctly both ways (i.e. making sure the sequencer is expecting the Gt notes, stops, and expression values to be on channel X, Y, and Z).
    I haven't used a Rodgers sequencer, so I don't know the actual procedures to run one or set one up.
    Last edited by samibe; 01-28-2019, 12:29 PM.

  • Leisesturm
    replied
    Thanks, the organ is a Rodgers Trillium Masterpiece 928. I suppose MIDI is fairly extensively implemented from the looks of things. When I asked about John's setup it was to learn exactly how the 'remote' is used. Rodgers has a sequencer branded as such that functions much like the Allen sequencer. The Rodgers sequencer would be an easy sell to the people pulling the purse strings. A used laptop less so. Most of my questions are procedural and operational in nature. It might seem simple to you to "use a VPO on a computer just for the midi sequencing abilities" but that is not simple to me. I suppose I will figure it out though.

    Leave a comment:


  • samibe
    commented on 's reply
    What is your organ? The extent of the MIDI implementation on the organ affects how the sequencer needs to be set up. It also depends on how complicated the organ accompaniment needs to be. A song with only one registration and swell/crescendo position will only require note on/off (to and from the organ) to produce the song. A song with several registrations with full expression will require note on/off, stop (or piston) controls, and expression control.
    John's sequencer is an Allen module with a remote, IIRC. Also, John's use of pistons is a way he used to get around the different stop lists between his organ at home and the organ at his church.
    Last edited by samibe; 01-28-2019, 11:48 AM.

  • Leisesturm
    replied
    Ok ... I am convinced enough ... desperate enough ... to want to give this thing a try. I simply can't get my choir to sing to organ accompaniment. Mainly because it is physically behind them but also because I don't conduct much when I accompany. The final cut-off is about it. This works with piano for some odd reason but organ and they just fall to peices. The Anthem I want to do for Easter will have more moving parts: brass, handbells ... I see a train wreck looming, unless I can also get an organist, which maybe I could have, if I made the arrangements last year. Besides, there are several other anthems with delicious organ accompaniments I would like to try, and I would quickly exhaust our music budget if I was constantly bringing in guest organists. Not that I know any.

    So that out of the way, and I know you good gentlemen and ladies will politely gloss over my earlier holier than thou attitude towards sequenced organ accompaniment and help me put a working system together by Easter Sunday. Preferably Palm Sunday so I can work out kinks. I had linked an MR-200 Sequencer proprietary to Rodgers Instruments. I like that I wouldn't have much trouble describing it to the Trustees who would have to approve the purchase. Currently unknown is how the organ recognizes the sequencer. How and where they need to be in proximity to each other. John mentions using his to start the Processional. Is the sequencer where he can physically control it or must he rely on someone else? Are there 'remotes'? My organ does not have MIDI tabs. Each division has two MIDI pistons and it is my impression that they are input controls. There is a set of the usual MIDI IN/OUT/THRU jacks under the keydesk, and it is my impression that they are active full time, not only when MIDI pistons are pressed on the console.

    As I understand it from this thread, the sequencer does not record stop changes but only piston changes? However it can make piston changes occur during playback? Would the dedicated sequencer made by Rodgers have better integration in this regard? Would I be able to record not just piston changes but stop changes as well? I really don' know anything about this aspect of digital organs because I haven't been that interested before. I can get up to speed fairly quickly if it is presented as if to someone mentally challenged. So, to summarize, I would like to know: what must the initial configuration of the organ be in order to be controlled by the sequencer? How quickly does the organ recognize the start of a sequence? Do you set the initial stops on a piston in the sequence? Must all stop changes be done with a piston? Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Moller Artiste
    replied
    Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
    Yes, an inexpensive Acer laptop should be fine, as long as it has at least one full-size USB port. The little unit I bought came from Best Buy, I think, and was Lenovo branded. But any decent laptop running Windows 10 will work. (as would a Mac, but I don't know that they can be bought for such little money.)
    Thanks, John.

    Allen

    Leave a comment:


  • jbird604
    replied
    Yes, an inexpensive Acer laptop should be fine, as long as it has at least one full-size USB port. The little unit I bought came from Best Buy, I think, and was Lenovo branded. But any decent laptop running Windows 10 will work. (as would a Mac, but I don't know that they can be bought for such little money.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Moller Artiste
    replied
    Originally posted by myorgan View Post
    Moller Artiste,

    Not being familiar with the equipment you're using, my immediate reaction was wondering if you may need drivers for some of the equipment.

    Also, with my Allen Ensemble, I've also noticed it tends to work better when I change it to the General MIDI (GM) mode rather than Allen's proprietary mode. In the Allen mode, note on/off doesn't always work correctly, but in GM mode it does.

    Michael
    Michael,

    I have a VPO in a refurbished 1960 Allen TC6 console. It was MIDIfied using Artisan uMIDI system. The uMIDI works with Hauptwerk running from an iMac. I think the Artisan recorder may be outdated enough that it is causing occasional audio hiccups in playback mode. When you change your Allen to GM, I'm assuming that is done through the console controller. I don't know of a way to introduce drivers into the Artisan system. As John mentioned, a new laptop computer with sequencing software may be more compatible with the components running Hauptwerk. Allen

    Leave a comment:


  • myorgan
    replied
    Moller Artiste,

    Not being familiar with the equipment you're using, my immediate reaction was wondering if you may need drivers for some of the equipment.

    Also, with my Allen Ensemble, I've also noticed it tends to work better when I change it to the General MIDI (GM) mode rather than Allen's proprietary mode. In the Allen mode, note on/off doesn't always work correctly, but in GM mode it does.

    Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • Moller Artiste
    replied
    Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
    I don't know why the Allen unit won't work with your system, but they are specifically designed to interface with the Allen MN system, so perhaps they just don't speak the same language. Or maybe they don't use the same internal channels.

    A USB-to-MIDI adapter is a little device that plugs into a single USB socket and provides both MIDI In and MIDI Out cables for connection to your organ. I have bought several over the years. One came free with Cakewalk when I bought it back 15 years ago for the first time. I got another one for around $20 somewhere on line. It is all you need to fully interface a laptop with an organ, as long as the organ has a standard pair of MIDI in/out jacks.
    John,

    Thanks, I understand the setup. The Artisan uMIDI system has IN and OUT MIDI ports. Shouldn't be an issue to connect a laptop. I'm sorry the Allen Smart Recorder won't work. It's in like new condition. I had extra wood panels for the sides (I always kept a supply of walnut and oak so I could change them out to match a console for a customer.) and I replaced the scratched originals with new walnut from the factory. Thanks for your help. Allen

    - - - Updated - - -

    Originally posted by Moller Artiste View Post
    John,

    Thanks, I understand the setup. The Artisan uMIDI system has IN and OUT MIDI ports. Shouldn't be an issue to connect a laptop. I'm sorry the Allen Smart Recorder won't work. It's in like new condition. I had extra wood panels for the sides (I always kept a supply of walnut and oak so I could change them out to match a console for a customer.) and I replaced the scratched originals with new walnut from the factory. Thanks for your help. Allen
    John,

    An after thought! Is a small ACER laptop (new) from Walmart sufficient to use for recording? Thanks, Allen

    Leave a comment:


  • jbird604
    replied
    I don't know why the Allen unit won't work with your system, but they are specifically designed to interface with the Allen MN system, so perhaps they just don't speak the same language. Or maybe they don't use the same internal channels.

    A USB-to-MIDI adapter is a little device that plugs into a single USB socket and provides both MIDI In and MIDI Out cables for connection to your organ. I have bought several over the years. One came free with Cakewalk when I bought it back 15 years ago for the first time. I got another one for around $20 somewhere on line. It is all you need to fully interface a laptop with an organ, as long as the organ has a standard pair of MIDI in/out jacks.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X