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Finale notation program / MIDI from Allen organ – separate stuffs?

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  • Finale notation program / MIDI from Allen organ – separate stuffs?

    I would like to let Finale write the score (hyperscribe), while I am harmonizing or improvising organ.
    – I use Macbook with Finale and USB MIDI;
    – Allen organ with MIDI in and out
    – both manuals and pedal now are recognised not as separate sources, but as one
    – pedal is put in same line of left hand
    – score is divided with a Finale option (split point)

    I tried to change settings in Finale: Score manager – Instrument list – Staff 1, 2, 3 from default (it was bank 1, channel 1) to different banks and channels, but result is the same. What do I need to do to make it work?

    I wish to play melody (Soprano) on upper manual, Alto and Tenor on lower manual, Bass in pedal – and to get 3 keybords to 3 stuff score.

    I would appreciate any advice
    I do not have experience configuring MIDI

    Thank you very much

  • #2
    When you play an improv into finale (both hands on one manual), how well does it handle the rhythm? How good is there score? Does it require a significant amount of editing before it's even readable?

    When I have tried playing music into notation programs, I've had to keep very strict time to not end up with bizarre rhythms or have the beat shift through the song. It might be easier to record an improv with a midi editor and then work out the transcription when you enter it into finale. Most midi editor will show what was played on different channels.
    Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
    Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.


    • vilimasn
      vilimasn commented
      Editing a comment
      I can not answer the question about score afterward, before I solve problem, that everything, what I play goes through channel 1 as one source to one staff (or divided just by splitpoint, what is not usefull).
      I am still looking for this answer - is it possible to connect MIDI USB, that I get 3 channels instead of just 1?

    • samibe
      samibe commented
      Editing a comment
      I can't help with Finale. My notation program listens to all midi channels and puts any input only on the selected staff. Finale might have better real-time midi input settings.

      What I was trying to get at is whether it's worth pursuing. Since only one channel is working for you, can you improvise 8-bars of music, one-handed, and get something that is even readable/playable out of Finale? If Finale isn't capable of generating a usable score from a real-time improv of one part, there's no way it's going to do any better with three simultaneous parts and you might be better off doing something else.

  • #3

    I believe it is possible, but having used none of the equipment you're using (except the Mac), I'm just shooting in the dark.

    If I'm not mistaken, the Allen sends the Swell, Great, and Pedal signal on separate (non-standard) MIDI channels. If you are improvising on one manual (i.e. the Great), then the input from that channel will be one stream of output. You have done the right thing by creating a split point.

    Most MIDI programs allow the user to re-map MIDI channels as they come in. For example, if the instrument is sending information on MIDI channel 5, the user can re-map it to MIDI channel 2 if that is what they need.

    Another option for you is to use the program's filters to move the lowest note in the bass clef to a pedal clef. I know Sibelius allows one to filter and select the lowest note only. Once you select it, you can copy, cut, or paste as desired. Surely, Finale has that option as well.

    I hope this gives you some ideas in the absence of definitive information.


    P.S. I have generally found live note recording to be useless. Rather than writing notes as I intend, the program has a mind of its own. I'm still waiting for them to allow one to use the damper pedal (or something else) to tell the program not to put 16th or 32nd rests between EVERY #$%& note! Step time works better for the program–but NOT for your improvisation.
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos


    • myorgan
      myorgan commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with Sam's comment above. I've had little to no success entering music in realtime. I always use steptime or keyboard input when I need to write out a score. I ended up writing out my own 3-stave score for Saint-Saëns' Symphony No.3 (Organ Symphony). it was MUCH easier reading than the 2-stave version the Symphony provided–especially the last movement.


  • #4
    Looks like that's an Allen Protege model. Those should have a single MIDI IN but 2 MIDI OUT connections. MIDI OUT 2 is the switched connection intended for external sound modules so it can be the output of data can be switched on or off from the console. MIDI OUT 1 is the unswitched connection for computers or data recorders that receives all the MIDI data from the Allen. Swell usually sends on channel 1, Great on 2, and Pedal on 3. On some models, General Pistons data is sent on channel 8. Some models send expression information (volume) on channels 1-3. Others send expression only on channel 1 like it was controlling swell shades.