Conn 653 Price Range

[Guest]

What should I expect to reasonably pay for a very good condition 653 with no external speakers? I have played one locally in excellent condition, but the asking price seems very high at around $7,000. Would it being restored make the difference?

[John Kinkennon]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



Here on the west coast the big Conn theater organs come up for sale from time to time on craigslist. Theyare frequentlylisted around $500 or so and even then they don't appear to be selling. If a competent tech has put work into the organ and will deliver it and offer some sort of warranty then that clearly adds some value. How much is hard to say. It's not a question of whether the Conn is "worth" more. Just a sad reality of what the current market is like, at least out here. Make an offer!

[Jay999]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



I've seen two in the last two years. Both of them needed work. However, when they are up and running well, they really sound good.

A lot of the final price has to do with how willing the seller is to negotiate, and same for the buyer.

Perhaps another way to approach that $7,000 price is to ask yourself what you would pay for it if it were not working, and then add whatever value you feel it is worth additionally, since it is playing.

I, personally, would not pay more than $750.00 for a non working 653. Then I would have to think very hard about how much labor actually went into restoring it. If the technician really went through all the boards and resoldered every joint, then it would be well worth that high price. But I doubt it has had that sort of restoration. (All the electronic organ techs I have encountered around the Atlanta area are the "hit it and run" variety). Another negotiable value you could tie to a high price would be a lengthy service warranty, especially if it is being sold by a dealer. If the instrument has been done over carefully, I would be confident, and the technician should also be confident, that the organ will play great for quite a long time to come. Those solid state components in a Conn are pretty stable. It's just all those solder joints that have broken down and are causing the troubles you might experience.

There have been a couple of 653 Conns over on Theatre Organ Home Page. At this moment I don't know if they have been sold, but you could visit there at www.theatreorgans.com/ and see if they are still available. Just click on the "classified ads" to bring up the list.

Here's wishing you well from the owner of two Conn 644s and a 635.

[Jay999]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



Please pardon me for somewhat "minding your business". But after I wrote the piece above, I wanted to check up on myself and be sure that I had, indeed, seen those 653 postings over on Theatre Organ Home Page. Sure enough, here's three of them. Best of luck!

1. Sherwood, Illinios. Listed 9/6/09. Conn 653 with two external speakers. $4,000/OBO.

2. Clovis, California. Listed several times, Feb., May, June, and finally in August. A 653 without external speakers. $4,000/OBO.

3. Vacaville, California. Listed 7/20/09. Conn 653 without external speakers. Make an Offer!

These listings are by private individuals, and of course, there wouldn't be any guarantees or delivery options. You'd have to go get the instrument and bring it home yourself. In all these listings, the sellers are willing to do some "horse trading" on their prices, and they are starting at almost half of the $7,000 model. Perhaps this will help you do some negotiating.

Enjoy that Conn! It's a great sounding instrument!

[andyg]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



If I may add my 2 pence worth.

Perfect condition. Fully restored. Etc, etc. How many times have we seen that, only to find from the poster that on inspection, things were not quite as they seem? I'd agree with Jay that 'restoration' may mean that the organ has had a good service rather than the many many hours that a strip down and rebuild would take. Of course, you've tried this one and it's in good order, so that's a big plus, but are there engineer's invoices etc to show what's been done?

As for value, those listings show what the state of the market is, pretty much worldwide (with some exceptions like Australia and parts of Europe). I think that they may be on the high side - no takers on that one in Clovis in 6 months. There aren't enough 653's in the UK to work out a UK value, but Conn consoles usually actually sell for rather less than this sort of figure. I've seen the smaller 644 sell for just over £50, including a leslie 700. (Too far away for me to get, and it was upstairs [:(])

Would you be prepared to risk upsetting the seller's (perhaps quite genuine) feelings about its value by offering around half of what's being asked? I think that's the area these values show that you should be looking at?

And I'm with Jay. Although I personally prefer the 652 to the 653, it does make a great sound.

Andy

[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



As mentioned above there is alot of work to a true restoration. I'll second the motion that very fewqualified technicians want to do more than a 2 hour inspection and patch job. So unless the organ belonged to an extremely dedicated organ hobbyist, it isn't likely to be anywhere near perfect. We ought to create an level of playability that the organ's been great to date. The real caveat that is keeping organ prices down is you can't know what tomorrow will bring.

As said above, if the seller is taking on some risk responsibility that's great and it is worth some money. If the sale is cash and carry don't exceed $1000 and that's only assuming you want the organ very much and can afford to lose that much. It is the flagship of the 1970's and was then just about as close as a home organist could get to the real movie organ days. Check out Barton Buster on YouTube -- He and the Bone Doctor have alot of good Conn video's that will give you an idea what to expect.

[Guest]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range

Thanks guys. When I go to check it out more seriously, I'll have him open it up. Conveniently, I am a certified electronics tech though I don't work in the field. I'll be able to make a great inspection to see just exactly what has been done. Unless it has practically been rebuilt with a warantee of some kind, the seller has some serious haggling in his future. I think I know what's happening. The organ is on consignment and the consigneemay havea slightlyinflated view of what he's got.

[John Kinkennon]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range

There is a Conn 652 on the Portland, ORcraigslist at $400. Just do a search on "organ" and you'll see it. If I still needed an organ for Haupwerk I'd grab this one.

[Jay999]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



Hi John! Just out of curiosity, comparing this $7,000 Conn price......

Is your Hauptwerk program a theatre organ program?

And if so....If I may be so direct....how much more do you have invested in your Hauptwerk than the $7,000 Conn?

[John Kinkennon]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



I play mostly theater organ samples on my Hauptwerk setup because I'm mostly playing old standards. When I feel like playing classical or sacred music I just load up one of three small (and free) sample sets and the organ's character does an instant transformation to romantic, classical, whatever. If I get a little better (my playing is hopelessly intermediate) I'll invest a couple of hundred in a sample set from a larger classical organ. While the console looks like a theater organ it's just three keyboards and pedals pushing midi out to my PC where the sounds get generated. If I load samples for an English Romantic organ then that's what it sounds like.

You asked about cost and I don't mind sharing the details as it's been a very affordable adventure. I spent $275 for a Rodgers 321A Trio console and thentraded it's speaker and glockenspiel for an EMU 1820 audio interface. Let's see, I used an existing 32bit Intel-based PC and existing speakers and amps. The Hautwerk Basic Edition was $250 and the Keymedia theater organ samples were $400. Circuit boards for converting the organ console to MIDI ran a little over $500 and I've spent a few hundred on audio software and convolution reverb plugins. I figure I'm at $2000 now. It is certainly possible to spend WAY more if a person wants all the bells and whistles. The PC and speakers could easily have gotten me to $5000 if I hadn'thad them sitting around. My samples are for a 3/11 Wurlitzer. The full 3/35 set goes for $1600. So, as with most hobbies, one can spend a lot or a little and there is the usual point of diminishing returns where double the money doesn't buy double the sound.

Photos are at http://www.kinkennon.com/both on the home page and in a small gallery.

[Jay999]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



Thanks much for sharing that info with us!

I'm into a project that has become bogged down, due to flakey organ technicians.

I can't do much of it myself, because I'm not electronically or computer sav-vy.

I got pretty deep into checking out prices for equipment to build a three manual, 100 stop theatre organ...(roughly what you have)....ll ranks, all playing from either a Hauptwerk program, or even a cheaper way to go, with an Artisan product. Since I would have to purchase a dedicated computer, and insist on starting out with all new speaker equipment (studio monitors), I would have spent at least $8,000 for the package, and that's not including the sams or engraving for the stop tabs.

I've already got about $3,000 invested in my old Conns and two Wurlitzers, mainly from hiring a covered truck to move them around from one organ tech to another. What a lesson in frustration!

Since I'm a pipeorgan technician, I've just about decided to offend the neighbors, and put up a small pipe organ. At least I can work on that and keep it playing. But I really had my heart set on being able to play a dependable electronic instrument that could be pulled down to very soft volume, so I could practice and play at wee hours, without offending the neighbors.

Thanks again for sharing.

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range

I have played this 653. It is in brand new condition internally and externally.

They had restored it. I was looking for an organ at the time, and they had that, the rodgers 22b, and a conn 650. I fell in love with the 653. It had that fancy woodwork in the sides with the carvings. It was immaculate and sounded nice.

And of course I had to ask the price. Yea $7,000. But man was it nice. Best conn organ I have ever seen.

[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range



Nice to hear from you Brandon. I understand the work and cost that went into restoration, but personally I'd be really afraid to invest $7000 with the way prices have fallen off. It would have to be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream to own such an instrument. As Andy mentioned in an earlier thread those of us who don't play difficult music can get along just as well with our 580's which are still available for under $500.

As to the carving, I just took care of that myself and guilded both the router lines and the carving. I'm not good with posting pictures or I'd include a shot of the finished cabinetry. Looks just like a grand movie house organ! (now if I only get moving on the cleaning and restoring of the electronics I'll be in business)

[Guest]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range

[quote user="Brandon Tuomikoski"]I have played this 653. It is in brand new condition internally and externally.

They had restored it. I was looking for an organ at the time, and they had that, the rodgers 22b, and a conn 650. I fell in love with the 653. It had that fancy woodwork in the sides with the carvings. It was immaculate and sounded nice.

And of course I had to ask the price. Yea $7,000. But man was it nice. Best conn organ I have ever seen.

[/quote]

I'm going back to look at it again after his tech touches a few things up (Yes, I'm one of those agonizing perfectionisticcustomers). I need to ask just how "restored" it truly is. To me, restoration means the item is stripped down as far as it will go. Everything is cleaned and all worn parts are replaced. The entire thing is tuned up to new standard. If his definintion meets mine, then I think everything will be fine.

[Guest]

Re: Conn 653 Price Range

[quote user="OrgansR4Me"]


...It would have to be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream to own such an instrument...[/quote]

Really? They're nice, but what makes them so irresistible?