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Conn 651 - Gold Buss Bars

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  • Conn 651 - Gold Buss Bars

    Is there any way to tell by looking if a Conn 651 had old buss bars replaced to the gold ones? What are some things to look for when considering a Conn 651 besides going through all the notes and stops?

    And for those of you were paying attention, I was looking at a Conn 650, but I found an amazing 651 with conn pipes even closer to me. Going to see it sunday
    Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

  • #2
    Play the full length of the keyboards with only a string or reed voice. If the volume varies and is dull sounding then it has the vinyl.

    If the owner will open it then look at the lower rows of buss bars. The vinyl looks like a black wire set in a groove of the support rod.

    td

    Comment


    • #3
      If anyone has a Conn 651 (or 650 if it's the same with the buss bars?), could you take a photos of the buss bars? Honestly I have no clue what they look like or where they are.
      Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

      Comment


      • #4
        Is it in NY?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi! -- and Welcome to the Forum!

          I have a picture of my Conn 650 with the Horeshoe raised, and all 3 manuals raised ..

          Sorry it's not a close up, but in this picture, the Yellow arrow is pointing at the Nylon buss bars under the lower manual ...
          The Red arrow is pointing to the Silver buss bars.

          The Nylon buss bars are for the Complex [non-Tibia] sounds.
          The Silver buss bars are for the Tibia only.

          I hope that will help you a little..

          The manuals raise up and tilt back.

          The Solo manual just pulls up and tilts back, the Great and Accompaniment manuals pull up a little first [they 'snap' into place when lowered into place], then while holding the Left and Right cheek blocks, gently pull/slide the manual towards you - when it stops, then you can tilt them back.. but be careful --- the manual will want to slide back, so hold it in place, and tilt them back.

          The Nylon buss bars are a light yellow/cream color. They are the ones closer to you when you raise the manual.
          The Silver buss bars look matte-grey, and are located behind the Nylon ones.. up against the underside of the manual.


          Click image for larger version

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          marc
          Lowrey MX2 (NT400x)
          Thomas Floridian Classic -- aka Wersi Rondo Classic
          Kimball K800 'Fascination' Theater Organ
          Conn 650 - Type 1 with Conn Pipes - Model #145
          Baldwin Cinema 2 (214-DR)
          Wersi Spectra DX 700 CD - LiveStyle, Memory Tower
          Wersi Beta DX400 TS - (with AMS)
          Wersi Delta DX 500 - (with AMS)
          Wersi Pegasus Keyboard!
          MOOG Eterwave Standard Theremin & MOOG Werkstatt
          Roland GAIA SH-01 Virtual Analog Synthesizer
          Casio Privia PX-160 Digital Piano!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by steverose View Post
            Is it in NY?
            No, in Ohio

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by Suhndog View Post
            Hi! -- and Welcome to the Forum!

            I have a picture of my Conn 650 with the Horeshoe raised, and all 3 manuals raised ..

            Sorry it's not a close up, but in this picture, the Yellow arrow is pointing at the Nylon buss bars under the lower manual ...
            The Red arrow is pointing to the Silver buss bars.

            The Nylon buss bars are for the Complex [non-Tibia] sounds.
            The Silver buss bars are for the Tibia only.

            I hope that will help you a little..

            The manuals raise up and tilt back.

            The Solo manual just pulls up and tilts back, the Great and Accompaniment manuals pull up a little first [they 'snap' into place when lowered into place], then while holding the Left and Right cheek blocks, gently pull/slide the manual towards you - when it stops, then you can tilt them back.. but be careful --- the manual will want to slide back, so hold it in place, and tilt them back.

            The Nylon buss bars are a light yellow/cream color. They are the ones closer to you when you raise the manual.
            The Silver buss bars look matte-grey, and are located behind the Nylon ones.. up against the underside of the manual.


            [ATTACH=CONFIG]22708[/ATTACH]



            marc
            Thanks for the photo, still a little confused but the photo helps!

            Do I have to check under each manual?
            Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

            Comment


            • #7
              No. I can't imagine anyone replacing just some of the rods. Raise the solo manual. The fiberglass carriers will have either a gold rod or a black vinyl "rod" clipped to them.
              Maybe this will help:

              Click image for larger version

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              • #8
                In the picture, all 3 of the manuals are in the tilted up position.
                The rods as seen in tucsondave's illustration are nearly edge-on in my picture.

                When you see them, you'll understand better..
                It takes a bit of force to pull up the Solo manual... grab both cheek block edges [L/R] and pull up quickly and briskly, but not too hard, and the Solo manual will lift up.

                The Nylon rods are a light cream/yellowish color, and have a black carbon 'insert' running their length.. [the 'bottom' rods in tucsondave's image]..

                [heh - I actually was going to replace just the Solo rods in mine [$100 each!!], but decided they cost too much, plus they are no longer available [IIRC]...
                Instead, and as a last ditch effort.. I sprayed all the Nylon Solo rods with a quick drying contact cleaner, and it did restore all my notes! - even though Conn, and organ techs will tell you not to do so]..

                marc
                Lowrey MX2 (NT400x)
                Thomas Floridian Classic -- aka Wersi Rondo Classic
                Kimball K800 'Fascination' Theater Organ
                Conn 650 - Type 1 with Conn Pipes - Model #145
                Baldwin Cinema 2 (214-DR)
                Wersi Spectra DX 700 CD - LiveStyle, Memory Tower
                Wersi Beta DX400 TS - (with AMS)
                Wersi Delta DX 500 - (with AMS)
                Wersi Pegasus Keyboard!
                MOOG Eterwave Standard Theremin & MOOG Werkstatt
                Roland GAIA SH-01 Virtual Analog Synthesizer
                Casio Privia PX-160 Digital Piano!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok, so somewhere on this forum I found these pictures by someone else: Click image for larger version

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                  I think it was a 650. Are the buss bars the long yellow then silver bars in the photos? In the photos, are they the original ones? Will each manual look like this?

                  Is it correct that the 652 had digital keying? Does that mean the 652 does not have this? Just curious
                  Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In my 650 those yellow bars are the Nylon ones. The 'silver' bars are Tibia's.. BUT mine does not have that single silver one towards the front ..

                    On my 650 each manual has the same configuration.
                    Lowrey MX2 (NT400x)
                    Thomas Floridian Classic -- aka Wersi Rondo Classic
                    Kimball K800 'Fascination' Theater Organ
                    Conn 650 - Type 1 with Conn Pipes - Model #145
                    Baldwin Cinema 2 (214-DR)
                    Wersi Spectra DX 700 CD - LiveStyle, Memory Tower
                    Wersi Beta DX400 TS - (with AMS)
                    Wersi Delta DX 500 - (with AMS)
                    Wersi Pegasus Keyboard!
                    MOOG Eterwave Standard Theremin & MOOG Werkstatt
                    Roland GAIA SH-01 Virtual Analog Synthesizer
                    Casio Privia PX-160 Digital Piano!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Suhndog View Post
                      In my 650 those yellow bars are the Nylon ones. The 'silver' bars are Tibia's.. BUT mine does not have that single silver one towards the front ..

                      On my 650 each manual has the same configuration.
                      So those are the buss bars? When it's replaced with gold, do they replace all of them (nylon and silver) or just the nylon? And dumb question but do the gold ones look gold?

                      Maybe it was from a 651... I will dig back down again to find that thread
                      Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Only the Nylon ones get replaced... but, I was recently told gold bars are no longer available. Maybe someone here reading this can confirm this or otherwise..

                        Also, if the nylon ones are working, you don't need to replace them. Remember: if you use anything other than the nylon ones.. the notes will no longer have a soft attack.. if you're wanting 'authenticity' as far as sounding more pipe-like, then stick with the nylon ones...

                        If you like to play Classical as well, the sharp attack from non-Nylon bars will not sound right. Pipes do not have a sharp attack.. The sharp attack is more suitable for Jazz, and Hammond-style playing... not so much Theater or Classical..

                        If some notes are not sounding well, you can gently move the whisker wire contacts that touch the buss bars to the left or right a little. This generally will give you a proper sound again. That is what I did with mine..

                        I myself have not seen the gold buss bars, maybe someone else here will comment on that..


                        BTW -- If when looking at the buss bars, you happen to see a green, gooey substance at various places on the Nylon bars.. that should be cleaned off.. a tedious and long job..
                        Not all of the 65x organs had this done to them. Conn had tried to fix the dying nylon bars with this green, dielectric goop. Not very successful, and as it aged.. it became unreliable.

                        My 650 had that junk applied to every nylon bar [there are 17 Nylon bars in my 650!]... It took me some hours to clean it all off using pipe cleaners and 90% Isopropyl alcohol. I just did a manual a day...
                        It wasn't hard, just tedious...
                        Lowrey MX2 (NT400x)
                        Thomas Floridian Classic -- aka Wersi Rondo Classic
                        Kimball K800 'Fascination' Theater Organ
                        Conn 650 - Type 1 with Conn Pipes - Model #145
                        Baldwin Cinema 2 (214-DR)
                        Wersi Spectra DX 700 CD - LiveStyle, Memory Tower
                        Wersi Beta DX400 TS - (with AMS)
                        Wersi Delta DX 500 - (with AMS)
                        Wersi Pegasus Keyboard!
                        MOOG Eterwave Standard Theremin & MOOG Werkstatt
                        Roland GAIA SH-01 Virtual Analog Synthesizer
                        Casio Privia PX-160 Digital Piano!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Time for some clarification.
                          The yellow "nylon" bars that suhndog is referring to are the supports for the conductive vinyl buss bars. They are actually fiberglass. The vinyl buss bars rest in a groove on the top of the support rods and are held in place by plastic clips. They are actually stranded wire with a conductive vinyl coating. The support rods are not replaced when installing gold buss bars. The vinyl is pulled out and the gold rods slid back into the groove.
                          The yellow support rods will be present with both vinyl or gold buss bars.
                          Organ Service Corp, the supplier of Conn parts no longer has gold buss bars. There was a third party in the northwest that was making them but he too ceased supplying them years ago. IIRC he said the company that did the gold plating would no longer be able to handle the long pieces of wire.
                          As far as the sound difference the gold gives a much brighter tone with a slight keying noise due to the fact it is audio keyed.
                          And yes I have done several buss bar replacements.

                          td

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks everyone, this place is amazing.

                            I found the thread where the I got those photos from, "The Conn 651". They are indeed a 651 so that could explain the one silver bar below the yellow ones which Suhndog's 650 does not have.

                            Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                            Time for some clarification.
                            The yellow "nylon" bars that suhndog is referring to are the supports for the conductive vinyl buss bars. They are actually fiberglass. The vinyl buss bars rest in a groove on the top of the support rods and are held in place by plastic clips. They are actually stranded wire with a conductive vinyl coating. The support rods are not replaced when installing gold buss bars. The vinyl is pulled out and the gold rods slid back into the groove.
                            The yellow support rods will be present with both vinyl or gold buss bars.
                            td
                            Dave, are the buss bars in this photo? Click image for larger version

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ID:	599352 Old electronics just aren't my thing but I'm trying to learn for this purchase.
                            Conn 650 (Type 1) with gold bus bars. 4 sets of Conn Pipes. A stupid Kimball piano

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The 5 white buss bars at the top with the raised silver area are the flute bars. They rotate into position to activate the flute keying.
                              The 3 yellow support rods hold the black vinyl buss bars. They are just visible at the top of the support rods.

                              td

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