Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321

[terryp]

I just acquired a Trio 321 (no suffix, but with wood-core keys and internal glock). It has a few minor issues that I think I could resolve with the help of a service manual. Does anyone here have one available?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Thanks John;

Further investigation has revealed that the console speaker channels are only working with the Mains, not the Tibia voices. That is why I was not able to hear Tremulants on the Tibias. However, when I ran the RCA tape outputs into two direct boxes and then into the sound system at Mic. levels, all is well, the Tibias are fuller now and they do respond to the tremulant tab.

Gary has been most helpful, and I believe that we have determined that this particular instrument is a 321C, as it has eight settable pistons and eight toe studs.

Gary and I are attempting to find out why the internal speakers that are for the Tibia channel are not working. This organ is now in a 1600 seat theatre in a clubhouse in a huge retirement community. It is hoped that we will be able to find some of the residents who can play it. They will not always have access to the sound system being on, and they will need to practice with the internal console speakers.,

Bruce

[John Kinkennon]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi Bruce,

I've been holding off on answering your post as I'm so new to this forum and my Rodgers is a 321A and it is entirely possible that your 321 may not look like what I describe. That said, on the 321A there's an obvious "most likely" failure in the tibia tremulant and vibrato circuits. The tibia (and mains) tremulant, vibrato, tibia ff, and tibia bright all turn on little lamps (#19) that in turn activate Light Dependent Resistors. These lamps are inside tubes on the tremulant circuit board which sits above the tibia oscillators. They just pull out. If this isn't the problem, and if the switches themselves aren't damaged, then it's time to pull out the schematics and dig deeper.

Those are nominal line levels on the tape outputs. Watch out for a dirty scratchy volume control that will send lots of noise through the sound system.

Good luck!

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hello Gary and everyone on this thread;

I just joined this forum today, because it looks as if the knowledge base that I need for my situation is most certainly present amongst the posters, whose postings I have read. It is from all of you that I seek assistance.

I work in a large (1600 seat) theatre in a retirement community in South Florida. We have been given a Rodgers 321 three manual theatre organ that was previously in a church ( ! ).

A couple of questions: 1) Although I have adjusted the Tibia Trem Speed and Tibia Trem Depth potentiometers, there does not seem to be any Tibia Tremulants happening. The Mains work fine, but no trems at all on the Tibias. Any ideas where I should look for the solution?

2) We have a very sophisticated Meyer Sound system, and I would like to input the 321 into the sound system. It appears that there are two RCA female jacks inside the 321, labeled "Tape Recorder Mains" and "Tape Recorder Tibias". AmI correct in my assumptions that these are line level outputs of the two channels of the instrument?

This has the potential to be a really neat thing in this theatre. There are quite a few "organists" living wihin the community, and management has discussed having "pre-movie" organ music... I think this was done in theatres before....a long time ago....and on WurliTzers, Bartons, Pages etc., but it would be neat to have it happen here on the 321.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Bruce Hannover

Tech. Dir. Century Village Clubhouse Theatre, Deerfield Beach, Florida

[Tinker]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi Eric,

What model of 321 are you looking at? There used to be a copy of the 321B/C brochure up on the Rodgers forum that had pics and a stoplist but it's not there anymore. I've got a copy of the file that I could forward to you if you PM me with an email address (it's a little over 900KB). There isn't a lot of difference between the 321B and 321C but there's more differences going to the 321A and 321 models. Stoplists are similar but they made some improvements up in the B and C models. If it's a B or C you're considering I've got a 321B (and a 322 Deluxe) so I could give you additional info and some sound samples from that model if you're interested. Of course different models with different speaker setups and in different room acoustics will sound different. I do have a commercial recording or two of the Trio but I'm not sure what model it is but it sounds like an earlier model to me. The playing is good on them but I don't think the recordings showed the Trio sound in it's best light.

Just let us know what you're looking for...

[rodenstock01]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321

Hi Brandon. It's been awhile since this post. Did you every get your Rogers Trio 321. I'm considering one. Please share stoplist, details and sound files if you have any. Thanks. Eric S.

[The Old Preacher]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi Tinker,

James here - sorry it has been so long to get back with you - busy season here, too. Yes, the four statements you made are totally correct. I know it sounds crazy! The model is 321 and the serial number is 31107. Thanks for any help you might suggest.

James

[Tinker]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi James,

Sorry to take so long to get back to this but with the holidays, a graduation and the usual non-organ things happening around here it's been hectic. So I studied the schematics that I've got for the Trio's but I'm not immediately seeing a failure that could cause the symptoms you're decribing. On my schematics I'm seeing the pedal voices being mixed into both the main and tibia channels just before the expression control circuits. They're then fed to the headphone and power amplifiers as well as the reverb which gets mixed back into both channels. So it's not obvious how the pedal signal could be affected without causing some disturbance in the main or tibia outputs.

Let me restate what I think you're seeing just to make sure I've got the right picture a I'll dig a bit more into it.

1. When the reverb is turned all the way up the pedal, main and tibia voices all sound OK (except for the excess reverb)?

2. If you turn down the reverb then the main and tibia voices are still OK but the pedal drops way down?

3. Are you seeing this problem both while using the headphones and when you're using the speakers?

4. Do you know specifically what model of Trio that you have? 321, 321A, 321B, 321C (If not, can you provide the serial number.)

I have noted some minor differences between the way my Trio's are built and what's shown in the schematics so maybe we're running into that issue. I had to manually trace out some of the circuits to fix a problem or two on mine. I've heard that there were "improvements" in the different model runs so a particular set of diagrams might not match all of the instruments in a series. Work is shutting down for two weeks over the holidays so I should have more time to spend on my organ hobbies :^)

[The Old Preacher]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Thanks, Gary. I look forward to what you can find out. Any help is greatly appreciated!

James

[Tinker]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi James,

I've got a 321B (and currently a 322 Deluxe) around the house and have been in and out of them many times for repairs and mods. I'll take a look at the 321 schematics and try to give you a few suggestions to try and isolate your problem. As I recall they do some blending and mixing of the pedal signal between the main and tibia channels and your single channel reverb sits right in the middle of it all.

Gary

[The Old Preacher]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi - James here from Missouri. I recently bought a Rodgers 321 Trio and it was working fine until just a few days ago. This is the problem. I had been using the headphonesa couple of times and the organ worked fine. Today, though, when I sat down to play it I discovered that the reverb control now also regulates the pedal volume and the reverb.

In other words, if I turn the reverb down to "0" there is no pedal volume nor reverb. To get the correct volume the reverb has to be turned all the way up. That would be okay except that is way to much reverb. I disconnected the in and outputs for the spring reverb and it not only killed the reverb but the pedal volume.

Any help or suggestions would be really appreciated!

Thanks, James

[Tinker]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi James, Andy is right on with the pedal positions. I was fine with the spinet pedals until I started getting all these other consoles around the place. The Theatrum is my only spinet so when I do play it it does take a few minutes and a few botched songs to make the adjustment. I really like the sound of the Theatrum. No strings except for the pedal string bass which is nice. Only two reeds and they're on the solo. I like the clarinet but don't find the trumpet very satisfying since it doesn't strike me as either bright and brassy or sonorous. I think it's got a very nice piano and I only wish the harpsichord on my Rodgers was half as nice, it sounds more like a banjo on my Trio. Everything else, traps, band box, drawbars, leslie, walking bass, etc. makes it a fun little instrument. It's even got a drawer that slides out with chord buttons on it which the little ones like.

When you look over how they designed this instrument it seems that they didn't skimp on the electronics the way some did. My Theatrum had the original showroom sticker on it which listed a price of something like $4,800 which was a hunk of change back in the 70's (not that it isn't these days...). They broke down a lot of the filtering and voicing into octave chunks so they could control the voicing up and down the keyboard, etc. The physical construction is also really nice, solid cabinet, swing out circuit panels, etc.

There's a bit too many organs around here to suit my wife and I had hoped to move the Theatrum up to our little cabin but she says there's no room for it and has declared the place an "organ free" zone. I'm hoping to someday sneak a bare bones VTPO up there :^)

I'd found the Theatrum in a thrift store to replace my Thomas spinet (can't remember if it was a Malibu or ??). Anyway it was head and shoulders above my Thomas so I had no trouble getting rid of my Thomas. I was going to donate it back to the thrift store but a guy drove by and offered me $20 so there it went. I'm still attached to the Theatrum but it doesn't get played as much these days so I may have to part with it, especially if I drag something else home to play around with...

I really enjoy tone of the Rialto K's and the one I have with the 102/103 Leslies really fills a room with sound. The Rogers is also a nice one and the only one that my wife and her friends think is "beautiful" so it's definitely a keeper. I just passed up a chance to pick up a couple of big Klipsch La Scala speakers only about 20 miles from here. They were the original external speakers on my Rodgers but there's no way I could have hid those in our living room :^)

Now if I could just take the best features of the Theatrum, Rialto K, Rodgers and Hammond and roll them into one instrument...

[andyg]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



The pedals are moved over to the right to keep the console dimensions down, James. A bit disconcerting at first but you get used to it!

Andy

[james]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Tinker,

Your Gulbransen Organs interest me. How do you like the Theatrum model? Are the pedals on this spinet a bit "staggered" as compared to regular spinet organs? These organs have a great sound.

James

[Tinker]

Re: Needed= Info on Rodgers trio organ 321



Hi Brandon,

Well, I've got in the habit of calling any pedalboard that "looked" like an AGO unit but really didn't exactly match their specification a princess pedalboard. It probably would have been more accurate to say that the 321 pedalboards are not built to AGO specifications. If you do a search of this forum you'll find some discussions about playing AGO vs. non-AGO/princess pedalboards. I read a comparison somewhere but couldn't find it in a quick search. Some of the larger Rogers TO and probably all of their classical instruments are AGO consoles. The differences don't bother me, the natural spacing is something like 2-1/4" which I think is just a shade narrower than AGO. The sharps on the Trio are something like 5" and I think AGO is 6 or 6-1/2"

I'll pick out a track or two from that Trio recording and send some MP3 to your email account. As I think I mentioned the Trio's I've played sound much better to me than the way they came across on this recording. I think I've also got an LP of a larger Rodgers perhaps a 340 that I'll also try and give you a sample of. They're quite a different instrument but you may find it interesting to hear one of their high-end analog TO.