Palace lll Tech manuals and conversion to VPO/VTPO

[AZSteve]

Help! I purchased a Palace 903 at an auction ($425). Of course it came with no papers or manuals of any kind. I intend to do a MIDI conversion to VPO/VTPO but need guidance for disassembly. I gently pulled up on the lid and was pleased to find small papers with ID stapled inside and how to change registration pistons. At least I know it's a 903. Will any 900 series tech manuals aid me in opening the instrument despite differing model numbers? I don't want to wreck the structural components. It is in dismal shape and restoring electronics would be prohibitively expensive. The case and keyboards are in good shape. The pedals are needing an overhaul. I laid them flat for transport and myriad little pieces of wood and broken black U clips fell off. Springs are missing also and the sagging pedals are always in contact - lots of pedal ciphers. Has anyone done such a conversion on the Palace lll (Thomas late 1960s). BTW It's a HEAVY beast. I have an advanced Hauptwerk license and dedicated PC (organ only) as well as Wurly, Barton, & Morton files that are quite nice. I realize the project may take a couple years and a fair amount of cash. I will be selling my Yamaha Electone ELX-1 for space and to help defray the conversion costs.
Steve Knapp

[andyg]

AFAIK, the Palace III console remained the same between models, so in theory any 900 manual would do. But very often the manuals did not contain disassembly instructions. There are some Thomas owners on here and I'd also suggest joining the Vintage Organs Facebook group as there are Thomas owners there too. Between the two groups (and some people are members of both) I know for sure that there are some Palace III owners.

Should make a nice 3 manual console to drive Hauptwerk.

[AZSteve]

Thanx Andy, but I'm not a Facebooker. I may try a Facebook account at some point. I disliked their invasion of my privacy. My daughter said she'd help me set it up to be more private. I do periodic general web searches for clues from others who have similar experience. After a good cleaning the case is quite beautiful.
Ahh, dreams coming true.

[tucsondave]

Thomas schematics had no disassembly instructions.
As you found out the lid hinges up. The rest of this is from memory since I haven't seen a 903 since the 80's. There may be two screws that hold the horseshoe cover in place at the top and a spring clip that holds it to the front of the horseshoe. There are also two plugs for the lid lights and horseshoe lights. One may look like a 120 volt plug even though it's 12 volts.
Next there will be a screw at either end of the front of the horseshoe.
Every thing on the Thomas organs hinged up. You will just have to look for the screws that hold down the upper and lower manual. They may be long screws up through the keyboard shelf.

IIRC both manuals had a set of DC keyer contacts in addition to the conductive vinyl. The DC contacts were above and to the rear of each key.

The pedals were from Conn and it was common for those plastic pieces to break. You will have to come up with your own solution since those parts are long gone.

td

[AZSteve]

Many thanks to you Dave. The horseshoe simplt slid up and back with a gentle bump of my palm. I managed to finally unplug the horseshoe lights plug. After 50 years it didn't want to come apart. Thinking I'd have to cut the heavier supply wires, I purchased some female disconnect wire "clamps". After returning home with them, I tried the plug one more time with a couple pair of slip joint pliers, and it separated nicely, go figure.
I vacuumed enough dust of the top layer of circuit boards to plug the vacuum. Then I discovered the crews you mentioned to raise the top manual and related electronics. The 3 screws each for the mid and lower manual are easily accessible. As it's late in the day and I'm sneezing from all the dirt and dust, I'll leave that for tomorrow. again, Thank you.
Steve

[AZSteve]

[AZSteve]

The pix were taken prior to opening it up. Now awaiting the tools I ordered and the tech manual to help me identify which wires to start cutting. The case is cleaning up beautifully though wood is quite dry. I'm treating it with lemon oil. Unable to raise keyboards due to bulky and stiff wire snakes. (snip, snip).

[AZSteve]

Finally!! The technical service manual, purchased on eBay for significantly more than chump change, arrived. I'm using it to reveal what it is I'm cutting and removing. Haven't found much about the pedals, their contacts and electronics. As I live in sunny, WARM!!! Arizona near Phoenix, I'm waiting until the sky furnace dies down. Then I'll work on them in the garage. My main concern is preserving the contacts if they're salvageable. There is a "cage'' behind the keyboards. Does anyone have an idea what it might be?

[AZSteve]

I've made a bit of progress in last 4 days. cut the wires on the stop tabs leaving 3"-4" if needed later. Removed manual piston controls leaving the pistons. All boards were removed along with their wiring. I was able to save the wiring bundle from the Solo keys for possible later use. They are color coded for each of the 12 pitches which will aid wiring the MIDI controller. In back, I removed boards on the Great and boards on either end of the case. While in back, I removed the sound system, expression pedal amp unit, and Leslie. There was good evidence of rodents but found no damage from them.
I need to raise the Great and Accompaniment keyboards but, after removing all the screws under the keydesk, I can't budge them. I even loosened the bolts on the rack at either end of the great in back. The Buss rack to the Great was missing some of the plastic rods that operate the contact stack. The springs for many keys are missing also. I may just replace the Great keyboard. Will any 61 note electronic keyboard fit? I know of Ensonic, Wurlitzer, and Gulbransen keyboards on eBay. I'd love a used three manual stack but don't have the change for those.

Any suggestions, help, critiques appreciated.
Steve

[toodles]

If you ever get to Northern UT, I have a 3-manual Rodgers keyboard stack that I would donate to your cause. Nice wooden core keyboards with gold-on-gold contacts. You might have to shave the key cheeks to fit the Thomas or add some filler strips, but the Rodgers key cheeks are easy to remove to do this sort of work. Also have a pedalboard that might work for you.

[AZSteve]

That makes my year!! I am most definitely interested.
We have a Ford Flex (station wagon) which, I think will hold all that. Do know approximate measurements? We've hauled some rather large stuff in her.
Steve

[toodles]

I haven't mentioned, but a 3-manual stack is quite compact--it would fit in the trunk of almost any car. Probably a little over 36 inches wide by 10 or 12 inches high, and maybe 20 inches deep. I'll take some measurements, but I can't imagine it's much different than those guesses. If pressed of space, they could be unhinged for 3 smaller packages--that' would be something that is easily done and reversed. Rodgers uses a large aluminum bracket to mount the manuals and provide the hinging.

I am in no rush to have you pick them up, so it would be at your convenience. Google maps put it at about an 11 hour drive one way.

[AZSteve]

:-> That sounds wonderful. Any Idea of the measurement of pedals, extreme Left to right? The Thomas set is 51". I'm not concerned with height as I can modify the Thomas case if need be. I'll have to replace the key-desk for the keyboards I think. Getting the old Thomas keyboards moving hasn't been successful yet. There must be hidden bolts or screws somewhere. I'm journalling my progress with pix for eventual addition here somewhere.

Steve

[toodles]

When I worked at Thomas Organ--that seems a lifetime ago--I pulled out all the circuitry from a 606 Trianon; the shell of the organ was used for the breadboard prototype of the Trianon 6280. The manuals definitely hinged upwards, but they did so with the entire cheekblocks (left and right). I don't remember exactly, but there might have been L-brackets attached to the end panels to hold the manuals down. The other option might be long screws coming up from under the keydesk (common on many organs of various brands) or down from the top (less common). I know that definitely the keydesk was integral to the console, and stayed in place when the manuals were removed. Every Thomas organ I've seen takes this approach.

I'm sure the Palace followed the general mechanical approach of the 606 Trianon since they were of similar vintage design.

The manual stack is about 36 wide by 21 deep (front to back) and about 9 inches high.

I have a set of pedals from an Artisan organ which is 51 wide at the widest point (what would slide under the console opeing) and about 9-1/4 high at the highest points. Walnut finish. That should fit the Thomas. I don't have the switching rail for this pedalboard, but it would be extremely easy to fabricate one. I recommend using reed swtiches and magnets.

The original Thomas pedals were made by Klann, slightly reduced from their AGO standard size. They might still have parts for them if you contact them (klannorgan.com)

[AZSteve]

:-)It will fit, both keyboards and pedals! I'll definitely use reed switches/magnets as they're more reliable than whisker contacts. I do have to extend the keydesk of the Palace another 11" but the supports are already there. Can we wait until this Pandemic starts to wind down and vaccinations are available to the public? I have mild heart disease, also a mild form of leukemia. As a result, I've been extremely cautious about going anywhere that requires an overnight. With my history as a critical care registered nurse, I don't trust hotel/motel sanitation nor will I fly anywhere for the next 12 months. Once I get this dream all up and running, I'll send you a copy of the journal with pix and maybe a recording. I have a large Acer PC dedicated to VPO/VTPO. I am going to upgrade the sound card as long I'm going "whole hog". My endless thanks to you, Toodles, and to Tucson Dave for helping me so immensely.