Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ

[Guest]

Greetings!

My local charity store has some kind of Baldwin Organ for sale which I have been covetting. I know very little about Organs, if fact - before a week ago I didn't even know they existed as well as the whole silent-movie roots.

Looking at photos online it looks like a Baldwin HT2 or similer but with fewer stops on the horseshoe shaped rim.

Could any of you comment on what you believe a fair price would be assuming it's fully functional. It does have one snapped key (what would be E2 on the lower manual) but I've seen possible replacements on ebay. Other than the one key it looks to be in stunning condition.

Also, how do these babies sound? I've been unable to find any decient examples online so far.

Thanks,

Red

[andyg]

Re: Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ



Hi

Can you post a photo of the organ, Red? That way we'll be able to IDit positively.

Sparekeys for a 1960's Baldwin? You'll be very lucky. You might even have to find another and cannibalise, but eBay does throw up some strange things! You could always swap keys to move the thenrepaired one to a less used position on the keyboard.

Value? Realistically, zero, even in full working order with no broken keys. But hey, it's a charity store, so IF it's working, maybe $25-$50 but that's all.

Early Baldwins have to be above a certain point in the range to sound good. Many lower-end American organs sounded a bit buzzy or 'clarinetty', depending on how their sounds were generated. An HT2 console (or its spinet [short pedals] equivalent, the CT2) has a richer sound than the small ones.

You won't find that many old Baldwins around, most have met theirend years ago, or are sitting where they have been for years, played occasionally but more a piece of furniture in the home of an elderly owner who loves it and won't part with it.

Andy

[james]

Re: Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ



Noidd,

Andy has told you some good advice. I can picture this organ vividly in my mind since we had a Baldwin dealer here in town for many years. I remember most of the models, but Baldwin is not one of my favorites although I own two of them currently. One is nearly on its way out of here to the Goodwill store.

This one is built like a battleship, and does have a rich full tone. It can be on the brassy toned soundwise, and the strings will bemore buzzy than many other organs. You will either like this organ or not like it. It willhavea strong sound that can go very loud to very soft. However, for a cheap reasonable price without too much of an expense for repairs I don't see where you would go wrong in buying it for some enjoyment. I most like would if I had a place to put it. If you find something you like or can affored my advice is to grab it while you can. I still regret one I did not try to obtain back in the past Winter.

Organs are most everywhere nowdays from estate sales, to church and home garage sales, to Thrift stores. I saw a spinet of some kind on a dolly today outside the loading dock of the SA Thrift store. Knowing me I wonder what brand is it.

James

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ



I'll send the wife to take photos of it tomorrow while i'm at work and post them here. Sadly, the store hours and location are such that I can only get there at weekends.

They currently have it listed at $400 and labelled as a "Church Organ" which is too high in my mind. I think it's visually stunnning to be honest - my worst nightmare in this regard is that they plug it in and and sounds like, erm... the tone is not to my liking.

I should have some pictures tomorrow. Now I've discovered this new class of instrument, i'll be looking out for them specifically.

As far as the broken key, ebay currently has an octave of baldwin keys for $10. No idea how interchangable they are across models but I guess there is potential. I guess more organs go the way of parting now because they are likely worth more in parts than whole + shipping.

Thanks again for your advice.

Red

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ



James, thank you for your reply.

I'll certainly be looking at various sources now. I'd never considered buying an organ at all until I saw this one.

With apologies to the Bard... Mine eye enthralled to thy shape, I'm hoping my ear is much enamour'd of thy note[0].

I'm not hugely concerned with repairs as I spent some of my high-school years doing valve/tube radio repairs and I'm still an electronics tinkerer. I'll break out my oscilloscope if I have to.

The store has a "No Negotiation" policy, items fall in price over time kind of like an un-official dutch-auction.

I will however be looking around for others.

Regards,

Red

[0] Titania, Midsummer Nights Dream. Act III.[1]

[1] I literally just finished doing a musical version of this show a week ago.[2]

[2] ... and yes, it did contain organ music.

[3] ... or should I say "organ" music as it was "Organ" sample on a Yamaha S08[4]

[4] Nice portable keyboard but the samples, especially the piano samples are aweful.

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Balwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



Pictures of the two organs. The first is the Reid organ which is what got my wife into the store, the second is the Baldwin which I am stalking.

[james]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. This is a HT2, but Andy will make very sure. I have played the smaller version of the same organ, the Spinet model when these were new back in the late 60's. As mentioned they are built like a battleship, and if you can get it to play some, I would grab this one. To me in my honest opinion, it is better than a good many, but not as good as others depending on theoverall sound it makes. You might check and see if parts are available first of all. I need to check out the parts place for the Baldwin currently. The last I heard it was in Arkansas. These are not sold everyday, and in some cases as Andy mentioned just outright given away. I have three spinets and the cash money involved in owning all three is only $250.00. So, I am one of those who others trash is my treasure. Then I have a Baldwin Church organ which was an outright trade for a large Conn. Now, my ongoing Wurlitzer project is the one that is costing a bit of $$$$$$$$. However, it will be worth the wait when it is going well. Check out my pics here on the Organ Form

This first one is a REED organ. I have one that has been restored to new playing condition. I enjoy having it as well as my electronic organs.

James

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!

My wife was attracted to the reed organ because of the markings on it and it's very perty.

The markings are in the center "Harmston" with a town and county of Wales on it (I don't remember which - I think it was pontypool or pontypridd). On the left is the marking "d.w karn" and on the right: "woodstock canada".

My wife has a thing for things from Wales. It's where I grew up and she wants our children to know of their "heritage". I'm guessing that she thinks that the markings infer that it was designed or built in Wales. I don't know but i'm curious.

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!

Baldwin keys available on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Baldwin-Organ-Orga-Sonic-Series-Keys-1-Octave-C-B_W0QQitemZ160255876770QQihZ006QQcategoryZ16219QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who knows if they're compatible across models.

The reed organ started at $3500 and is now down to $950.

The Baldwin is currently at $400. I'm now impatiently waiting for it to fall.

[james]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



This Reed Organ was built by the D.W. Karn Company, in Canada. Apparently Harmston, the town, and thecounty, Wales. They are very fine organs if and when they are in great working order. This would make a great restoation project as parts are available for them.

James

[james]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



This sounds typical of a Thrift store. The fools ought to be made an outright offer for such as this as some money is better than no money at all. They do way over price such as this, but I have seen a few sell that were the same as wothless. I am eager to find out what brand of organ is the one I saw yesterday on the unloading dock at the SA Thrift store. No doubt, it will be a price no one will pay for it including me. I remember they had several one time, and didn't want to sell me a music rack from one of them,Then a flood came and everything on the floor ended up in the dump. The old organ that I wanted the rack from was in such a shape that no one would have bought it to repair it.

There might be some hope for this Baldwin.I had rather have this one than some of the others I have owned, but as mentioned Baldwin is not one of my favorites. You will either like the overall tone or you will not like it.

James

[andyg]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



Yes, definitely an HT2, which dates it as 1964.

The keys on eBay are of the wrong type. Luckily, it's far enough down the manual that, unless you plan on playing some of the classical repertoire or quite advanced 'home organ' or theatre arrangements, you won't miss it. Doesn't look so good, of course, but at least it wouldn't stop you playing.

Your next step is to ascertain that everything works. That means trying out every stop on every note of the manual or pedals it applies to. There will be a tremolo created by a revolving speaker - it's called Theatrical Tremolo, and this needs to be working properly. You'll hear it 'wobble' the sound of the Flute or Tibia stops when running. It will take a while to test this all out and some stores aren't too keen on you doing this. Silly, as they want you to buy it, so go ahead and test.

If it isn't all working, walk away, as the cost of repairs might be high, even if you can get the parts. If it's all OK, then my guideline price still applies. These old beasts can sound lovely, but they can cost a bit to keep going, so that needs to be factored in, as does any delivery and transport costs.

I hope it's all working and you can give this old lady a good home. Let us know how you get on. We're always here to give any advice you need.

Andy

[Guest]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



[quote user="Tenor Trumpet 8'"]Company, in Canada. Apparently Harmston, the town, and thecounty, Wales.[/quote]

Thanks for pointing out my typo. Town and county *IN* Wales. Pontypool is in the county of Monmothshire in the country of Wales !

[james]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



noidd,

I made a typo myself, and then corrected it by typing the word, county in bold letters.

I noticed Andy's good advice. On such as this in a Thrift Store, I do say, "Let the buyer beware."

James

[jimmywilliams]

Re: Stalking a Baldwin Theatre Organ (Now with Photos)!



It appears to me thatkeys are Pratt-Read (or Pratt-Reed as some misspell it). They were also used on some of the mid-60s Gulbransen organsand assorted synthesizers from the 80s (and probably on many other makes/modelstoo). You can still find them; they usually don't come cheap though (I have no idea why). I ordered some from Dave's Electronics for my Gulbransen and they were 6 bucks each. I might have a few laying around that had relatively minor issues compared to the one in the picture; I'll have to check.

I concur with everything Andy says. It is only worth your while if everything is working (and don't be surprised if everything is NOT) unless you really have a strong desire to undertake a restoration project. The price seems way too high. Of course, if you have the money and could afford it just fine, I'm never one to tell people what to do with their own money! Space at thrift stores is a premium so when they realize they have square footage being taken up with something that isn't selling, they will evenually do the math and figure out it will be more profitable to move the organ much cheaper to make room for other stuff ... that's my gut feeling. Things like this can make vintage organ lovers sailvate, but there is little to no demand for these organs anymore as far as anyone else in concerned, so you may get lucky regarding price.

All that said it does look like a very nice organ - it all comes down to how well it works and most importantly how happy you are with how it sounds.

Another organ thrift-store story: I bought a select-a-rhythm unit recently from someone in Canada. It was on a Gulbransen T-200 Organ, circa 1965. Some guy in Canada bought the organ in a thrift store. As in your case, they wanted a high price for it. He watched it sit around for a while and the price come steadily down. Eventually it got down to something like 100 bucks - the guy offered 75 and walked out with it. (I joked that they may have even paid him to take it off their hands!). He kept the organ and sold the sleect-a-rhythm unit on e-bay, more or less getting the organ for free after all was said and done.

-jim

PS: Regarding Wales,my wife and Ispent our honeymoon in Wales - Portmeirion and the surrounding area - went to Snowdonia, etc. North Wales is beautiful. I even tried to learn a little Welsh myself before going but it is a tough language! Luckily for us mostof the locals spoke English - although not among themselves. I didn't see a single Union Jack there the whole time!