Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Organ Questions: Conn and Leslie Speaker Configuration(s) (or Something Similar)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Organ Questions: Conn and Leslie Speaker Configuration(s) (or Something Similar)

    ***LONG POST ALERT***
    Hi!

    I am new to this group. I have played the piano since I was about five and minored in music at the University of Michigan. I wanted to be different, so I enrolled in Classic Organ studies-go figure... At any rate, I have acquired yet another organ, and it's situated in my home studio (or makeshift studio) along with three piano/keyboards. I have attached my 'music room' setup. My wife is very "happy" with me constantly acquiring instruments. Somewhere in the same room, I have an Alto Saxophone; yes, I service it yearly.

    The Story (You Can Skip Ahead to the 'Question,' Ha!)

    The instruments I have always catered towards, mainly the piano and, at times, the organ (stemming from the amount of education I have received on it and the on/off-again relationship I have with organs). The keyboard I have come to love is the Kawai keyboard. I never play the "digital" features of the home keyboard. I am "old school," I love my acoustic pianos. Moreover, there's a "baby" grand piano, and last week, I scored a "free" Yamaha console. Now, to the organ 'jazz,' when I scored (this is my fourth organ in this home in the last four years) this organ, the Conn organ. I am unsure of the model information; perhaps someone from seeing the attached photos can make it out, and I am sure I could look at it, but I am not sure while typing this 'short narrative' of my inquiries regarding this organ. When I saw the listing, "free" does something to me, there's a whole story line behind my chasing after free things found on the marketplace. As you can tell, I digress and go on series of tangents. I am sorry to the readers of this post; please forgive me. Yes, I found the organ; a church forty or fifty minutes from me was "getting rid" of this organ, and it came, initially, with a free Leslie. These congregants didn't know what they were doing, giving a free-working-Leslie away, nuts...

    Free did come with a cost. They didn't say the Leslie (or what they referred to as the "old shotty speakers") was located up in the 'attic' or above the pulpit, which took a lot of finagling to obtain the Leslie. I really owe most of all my friends my life, and for them to indulge my craziness and my ways, they're special; and always will be, again the digression. So, Leslie was somehow retrieved, not to mention the 'sketchy-ness' that accompanied the ordeal. I reluctantly posted the Leslie on the marketplace for a 'nominal sum' and sold it. In retrospect, I should have kept it, but it was ginormous! I captured the model number and the serial number of the Leslie. It was a Model 205, and its serial number was B1325. If that means something, someone please tell me.

    The Conn, no pun intended, organ is fashioned with a "half moon" switch, naturally because of the past hook-up to the Leslie speakers. I have included the switches located on the organ in this post. Also, I saw the other switches; it might be hard to see before. Which is located on the "swell," or I believe on this type of organ it is called the "solo" manual; please correct me if I am wrong. Conversely, can you describe these switches from the attached photos and explain their purpose? That would be great, as I would love to know. There is an "external" speaker (or, as it is labeled in the organ," the balcony speakers") located to the right of the organ, which is near the stops (or controls) for the speaker controls or something similar to that on this organ. Unfortunately, I already knew this: there are no "drawbar" controls on this organ type. I know this is true for the "Hammond" tonewheels, or modernly, the clonewheels utilize these, but it would have been nice to have it, but I am asking for much. I am not a tried and true "drawbar organ player,' I have only learned how to use and execute these features in playing for jazz bands or traditionally in church settings.

    THE QUESTION

    To get to this point (I am truly for the long read,): there are rotary switches and another switch for the "tibia." I have never seen this switch in my experience, but it's on this organ (you can see it in the pictures attached). And if someone could explain its functionality and incorporation of how to "properly" utilize this switch (and feature)? The first switch is familiar. It is for the rotary, yes? Which is used to control the speed of the rotary. Again, correct me if I am wrong. There are similarly fashioned switches, as previously mentioned on the swell manual section: "slow and fast," with degrees of rotary speed. I am presuming there is an "ST (dot), R (dot), ST (dot), and FL (dot)," I haven't the slightest idea as to what this means, and I haven't used it on this organ often. In the times I have, I notice it does something, I am thinking, to the sound of the notes played. I am unsure; if someone could elaborate, I would be grateful. There is an "OFF/ON" switch; I know what that is, and no explanation is necessary in this regard.

    **DIRECT QUESTION**

    The direct question is: what speaker (or potential alternative) setup would work, given the above explanation of the features of my organ? An "Eleven Pin" (out) connector is located near the amplifier at the back of the organ. After reading the features of these types of organs, I am assuming that's what that is. How can I connect a "reasonably" priced amplification for this organ to gain the "rotary" sound for this organ? The internal speakers on this organ are really "mild" and do not pack a punch, which is what I want. At the same time, I do not have a lot of space in my room, and I do not want to try for the gigantic Leslies I generally see. Can I configure smaller amplifications with the rotary for this organ and use the half-moon switch? I am not looking for any action similar to the Hammond. I know it will be a mountain of achievement if I can get the function of a rotary speaker (or anything similar to a rotary) using the existing switches (and the other switch configurations) on this organ.

    Final Thoughts

    Any help is appreciated. I hope to get a few people to read this post and offer guidance. I don't want to overstay my welcome with this LONG post, at least for my initial post, in this feted forum. I think I am ready to present these inquiries about my organ. I hope, again, I haven't turned anyone off, and I am a "newb" relatively speaking to the organ world. Pianos are another story. I know that instrument inside and out. My piano tuner "loves" me, I promise; not... I am sure he hates to have to come to my house at least twice a year to tune my pianos. I am VERY picky, and it drives him nuts, but he has stuck with me for nearly a decade now, and I would be lost without him!

    Thank you for taking the time to read this post, albeit long. I hope it was informative and that I was able to explain my point and my inquiries regarding the organ I now own. Should you need additional information, share unrelated questions, or anything else? Please feel free to message me, and I will reply!

    Thanks,

    Jo
    Attachments (Photos)

    Conn Organ-A


    LINKS TO THE PHOTOS: Files too BIG (apparently)...sorry...


    https://photos.app.goo.gl/dsgvpxncQXGyc4ct9

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/VddYZVqY3uT9oQpr9

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/91vyZWsKRc3nVCNMA

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/tZk74TiEWTJVApAi7

    Attached Files
    Jo

  • #2
    Although you found this organ in a church, it is more correctly categorized as a theatre organ, so I've moved this topic to that channel where it's more likely to find answers.
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

    Comment


    • #3
      The half moons were for the Leslie 205, a good match for this organ's theatrical sound. All the other switches on the lower left cheek block appear to be non-standard, possibly home made. So no idea what they do, I've never seen anything like them before on a Conn.

      The Conn will never have 'punch', in the jazz organ sense. It's a sweet sounding theatre organ. The only way to gain any more volume and a little 'fizz' on the Tibia voices would be to strip out the connector kit for the 205 and buy a 251. It's the same size as the 205 but a very different leslie. The socket pictured is a 6 pin socket, almost certainly for the 51 family of leslies - 51, 251 and 351. The controls on the console will operate the leslie.

      But you will never get the bite or punch that you'd get from an older Hammond. Wrong instrument entirely, sorry.
      It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

      New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

      Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
      Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
      Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
      Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

      Comment


      • #4
        The 205 was one of those what was Leslie thinking models. Not "ginormous" as Leslie users go but the internals are not the usual.

        https://i.postimg.cc/y7M32bkk/LESLIE-205.jpg

        Would make a better guitar Leslie but YMMV:



        https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7By1LpJ2PZA

        The 251 would be more of a normal Leslie:



        Comment


        • #5
          What was Leslie thinking? Very obvious! The 205 (and similar cabinets for Lowrey, Thomas and Gulbransen) were designed exclusively for theatre organ sounds. Hence the Rotosonic drum for the tibias with a heavy throb, the smaller Rotosonic for reed/strings with a lighter tremolo. Leslie went further still with the superb 600, with its rotors and space generator for chorus and tremolo for the non flute voices.

          Horses for courses, they sound pretty awful on a Hammond and a 147 isn't the best match for a Conn.

          As for ginormous-ness, the 205 is the same size as the 147,122, 251 etc. If you want 'big', try the psychedelic 950! :)

          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by andyg View Post
            If you want 'big', try the psychedelic 950! :)
            Yup I figured as much. A theater organ sound.
            If ever a "what was Leslie thinking" model; Story on the 950, Leslie is rumored to had sent a unit to a Rolling Stones' concert.

            Jagger told them to get that ugly thing off the stage.

            Guess the rooster on acid didn't want any competition.

            https://i.pinimg.com/736x/30/38/b4/3...39f3e7e115.jpg


            Comment


            • #7
              I'd guess the Conn is a 600 series, possibly a 628? Anyway, it would have a very standard Conn two-channel audio system. Though it might have been decked out in the church with a big Leslie and some other external speakers, it really only needs the internal speakers for everything to work.

              One channel is for the flute or tibia voices, and that channel has a 15" woofer and a crossover that feeds into a cconsole-mounted two-speed Leslie speaker. Leslie speed is controlled by two tabs marked "flute chorus" and "flute tremolo" or something like that.

              The other channel carries all the "pulse" voices, which we might call strings, reeds, and diapasons. This channel usually had a couple of speakers connected in simple parallel (no crossover). These speakers would often be a 12" and a 6x9 or other smaller speaker.

              The pedals have their own separate tone generation system, and the pedal tones may be fed into both audio channels.

              I'd suggest simply making sure that the internal audio is all working correctly, that nothing has been disconnected. That the Leslie adapter, if present, is not degrading the internal sound. Really, if it's all working it should pack a punch, though not in the Hammond sense, I suppose
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

              Comment


              • #8
                @jbirds604 It's one of the 64x Theatre series and, as it has the Chorus control, it's possibly a 640 Deluxe (1963) or the 642 (1968). Big brother to the 62x Rhapsody and basically a horseshoe version of the 63x Serenade series. Same voicing, same sound, of course.

                Everything you've said about the audio channelling is applicable to most larger Conns from the Caprice and Minuet upwards. So Jo should certainly carry out the suggestions in your last paragraph.
                It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                Comment


                • jbird604
                  jbird604 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks for the update on the model number, Andy. What I fear is that someone has hacked into the internal audio pretty severely in order to add on the extra speakers, if that is what those obscure switches are for. The original configuration should be restorable unless some of the internal equipment was removed.

              • #9
                Hi!

                I am sorry for the delay. I have been too busy at work, and there's been no rest for the wicked lately, ha!

                I couldn't imagine gaining anything prominent from this organ due to its origin and functions. I was trying to guess what would be my best bet to achieve a somewhat tremolo effect to some degree. In the past, I had a fantastic Wurlitzer until I played it too much, just discharged it, and replaced it with some Lowry. I was not a fan of it. It was one of their digital models. I think it was rather fancy for what it was, but it wasn't for me and my music style.

                So, I stumbled upon this Conn, and since it had "switches," I was like, 'I gotta have it!'

                As for the amplification, it was paired (as you can see in the pictures) with a 205-Leslie. Again, it was too bulky, and I was unsure of its functionality then. No cords came with it, and I was like, 'Get rid of it,' and find another amplification source to utilize the switches. I know I sound crazy. I know the intent of this Conn was not to achieve some off-brand Hammond notoriety but to achieve a tremolo effect. Not to try to say I wanted to rock on like with a Hammond, I knew that from the start; and this organ wasn't purposed for that, I don't know if that makes sense. But I like the feel I had with that ole Wurlitzer, it was out of the seventies I think. But it had the onboard Leslie-like sound in its internal speakers. That is, until it stopped working...

                I am looking at an amplification source that would be comparable. I thought of pairing it with a Leslie CL20 Cordovox Speaker. Which I think would work, but I am not sure. It's close to me, and I intend to check it out tomorrow. Do you have any tips on what I should look for or avoid altogether? I think it is comparable, but I am not intentionally looking to achieve the effects of loudness, robustness, and anything remotely similar to a Hammond match Leslie notoriety at any cost. As mentioned, to get a little tremolo sound and effect with Conn. Should I seek additional amplification for sound? Could I create something that could work, I heard from someone that knows this organ that its best to have two speakers paired with it. So, I am considering leaving the rotary for that tremolo sound and additional speakers for increased amplification without the rotary and somehow engineering some external speakers to work for increased sounds.

                Let me know if you're reading this and I am not making sense. I am not an organ extrodinaire by any means, just trying to dabble my way around this. Like I said before, give an acoustic piano, I can do some damage, and set it up to work. But all of this digitization is a learning curve. I am fortunate to have mechanical and other types of engineers close in my circle who are familiar with how things work and are willing to embark on this project with me.

                At any rate, thank you for your response. If I understand this correctly, do let me know.

                As Always,

                Jo‚Äč
                Jo

                Comment

                Working...
                X