Conn 650 vs 580+$600??

[Royal]

So many of you helped me with my purchase of my Conn 580. I subsequently added a Leslie and pipes. I really do love it, looks, plays and sounds great, - play it every day. But, I know where there is a supposedly perfect Conn 650 for $500. Plus a full days travel and $100 in gas for my truck=$600. I have never seen nor (obviously) played a 650. 3 full sized manuals, but I don't feel limited by those on the 580. Full pedal board which my wife asks "would you use?"I told her "I really don't know, but I really don't give much thought to the pedals, - my foot just seems to go to the right one." Is the "upgrade reallyworth it?? Please give me any other pros and cons that might be of interest. I am retired and not wealthy. Thanks Roy

[Clarion]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



>I have never seen nor (obviously) played a 650.3 full sized manuals,

Definitely, go for the 650!! This was sort of Conn's latest and best! And worst case, if it doesn't all work out, sell one of them.

>Full pedal board which my wife asks "would you use?"I told her "I really don't know, but I really don't give much thought to the pedals, - my foot just seems to go to the right one."

Did you really mean to say:"my foot just seems to go to the right one?" One-footed organists tend to favour a peg-leg left-footed routine. [:S]

Many, many decades ago, as a young'unstarting out on his business career, I was provided with one of those already-agedmechanical typewritter contraptions. [:|].From the outset, it was apparent thatlearning to touch-type was the way togo!In aneffort to accomplish that objective, I posted on the top of my typewiter,typed copy of the entirekeyboard. Choosing to look at the typed-copy rather than the keyboard, it only took a couple weeks of aggravation, to enjoy a lifetime of keyboard freedom!

The very same goes for would-be organists! For the first three months of organ lessons, it'sall aboutbecoming ultra-familiarwtth the pedal division; and learning how to effectively use the B-C and E-F slots on thepedal-boardfor the purpose of orientation!Once implemented, there is no way you would ever goback to the restless left-footroutine!

[andyg]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



The 650 is a nice sounding organ and a working one at $500 sounds like a steal.

It doesn't take long to get used to the full pedals and they are more comfortable to play than 13. For much entertainment organ playing, as opposed to classical, one foot pedalling is quite OK.There aren't that many pieces of 'home' or 'theatre' organ music that
go much above C - the publishers had to think of spinets - but you can
always change the dots and there will be many times when that half octave above C will be handy, possibly played with the left foot. Above that, you're into two feet playing. And, before anyone jumps on me, yes, you can play two footed in the lower range too! And you can use heel and toe for some smooth pedal lines.

You'll have to get used to placing your right foot across bothe of the expression pedals most of the time too.

The 650 is a little more primitive than the 580 and that 3rd manual isn't. IMHO. so well voiced, just reeds and tibias. You don't have that independently keyed piano either.

Andy

[Royal]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



Thanks Andy,

I think that you are saying that the 650 is a good organ, but probably (with the exception of the bass pedals) not all that much better than a 580, - at least for my kind of music. I know that the 650 is more powerful, but with the Leslie and Conn pipes, I can blow the windows out of our house.

I only play entertainment organ and am not interested in classical. I think that Clarion mis-understood my pedaling. I do play the pedals and do not like the auto pedaling on any organ that I have tried (almost allspinets). For somereason, my pedaling seems to come naturally and requires very little thought. Only once in a while do I wish that I had another octave above the high C. Also, - once in a while I wish I had an extra $500, so maybe that is my trade off.

It seems to me that the Conn 580 is a little more than "just a spinet"??? (even though it only has the 13 bass pedals) My 580 is very full and rich.

I think that I have about 36 hours to make up my mind about the 650 and am leaning toward a "pass" since I currently have 6 organs and my wife seems very happy with the 580 in our living room. I hope to donate and deliver 2 of my working organs (both Wurlitzers) to local senior centersthis week. That will leave me with the Technics SX-EA5 that is almost working (very reduced volume) as my other organ since it has such a wide variety of new sounds and technological "advances". I am hoping that the EA5 will educate me as to what 2nd organ (in the house) I may want.Does this sound like a good plan to you? It seems that I live in some kind of organ Black Hole since there are no organists or technicians within 100+/- miles. That makes it impossible to see and play other instruments. The only other (than ones that have been donated to and by me for my organ rescue project) organs that I have been able to sit at are a Schatz pipe and a Rodgers electronic both in churches.

I find that I am not playing the piano much any more. -- So many organs, so little time. Roy

[crossyinoz]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??

[quote user="Royal"]


So many of you helped me with my purchase of my Conn 580. I subsequently added a Leslie and pipes. I really do love it, looks, plays and sounds great, - play it every day. I don't feel limited by those on the 580. I really don't give much thought to the pedals, - my foot just seems to go to the right one." Is the "upgrade reallyworth it?? [/quote]

G'day Roy,

I'll add my 2 bob's worth and can do so without any bias, because I don't like Conn organs - any of them! You're happy with your 580, its Leslie & pipes, so why throw awayvaluable time &money on something that Andy's quite correct in saying is more primitive, just because it's a bigger brown box. Doesn't make sense! You'd be buying something that's 4 years older 1968 vs. 1972, and missing some very useable features. As for the price, it's about what a 650 would bring over here.

If as you say you're happy with your 580, but want another instrument, my advice would be to find another brand you like that is far removed from the Conn in features, sound and operation. They say there's strength in diversity.

Cheers,

Ian

[Royal]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??

Thanks guys. I have decided to let the 650 go to someone else. Back to work on my Techincs now. I will rest easy with this decision. It is in a church in Virginia Beach which "upgraded" to a new instrument and is on Craig's list (1/3/09) for $500 asking. Good luck. Roy

[andyg]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??

From what you've said, I think you've made the right choice.

[james]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



Royal,

It is a shame you were not close to me a few yearsago. If so I would have given you a 650. I hated it, and told several I just wanted it out of my house as well as would pay to get it out of here. Mine had stopped flute tones, but everything else sounded the same the only difference was in volume. Hence, those non flutes were formed from the same tonal source and you could sure tell it on the one I had. The perc system was a poor excuse aswell as the follow the player rhythm section. So it is good that you made a decision to keep what you enjoy. You don't need two of the same type and money tight with you as well as myself.

I agree with Ian's thoughts.

By the way since I am a Wurlitzer fan, what models do you have in those? You might should hang on to one of those at least. There is more variety in my honest opinion on the Wurlitzer's than any Conn I ever played. The only Conn Organs I cared for were the early tube models called the Minuet which was a spinet model.

James

[Royal]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



James,

Thanks for the advice. I am taking your/Andy/Clarion/Ian,s, -- in fact everyone's advice very seriously and hoping to get this Technics SX-EA5 working soon as my "very different" operating as well as sounding option to my Conn 580. My biggest problem is that although I was once a pretty good tube and wire electronics repair guy, I am somewhat intimidated by all the miniature components and microscopic solder connections as well as the IC's and computer chips in the EA5. It is easy to see why people replace or just throw these thingsaway rather than repair if the instrumentstarts acting up.

I have currently only 2 Wurlitzers in my "stock". Two small spinets a 4030R and a 3(?) keyboard 4037. All of my instruments were donated except for my 580 and a Conn 552 thatI bought for spare parts for my 580 (unfortunately the 552 is so nice, I have not been able to bring myself to tear it apart to only make minor improvements to my 580).

It seems that there are far more unwanted instruments in this areathan I am able to store and have started to become more selective on what organs I will remove (even for free!). I am planning to give both Wurli's away to local senior citizen centers if it ever stops raining here.

Roy

[james]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



Royal,

I had a 500 Series Conn at one time, and sold it to a church. The 650 actually had no more sounds than the 554 that I had. As mentioned I don't like Conn organs except for a very few exceptions.

It is good that you are going to donate those small Wurlitzers. They can be fun, but they are not my cup of tea since they are from the lower end of the Wurlitzer line when they were making small budget organs as well as the many others were doing at the same time.

The organ MKT is gone, and only a few like us here on the Organ Forum are interested in having some decent organs to enjoy having as well as playing. I have some that need to go out of here maybe to the landfill yet since I need the space. I have an old Baldwin and Thomas spinets that I do not intend to spend a cent on for sure.

We need the rain and I envy that your area is getting that now. I just need to find a couple of strong guys to assist me in moving a couple of old organs out of there.

Good luck with your projects. I am eager to get my Wurlitzer project finished and have this vintage organ playing like new again. It is an old tube 4100A.

James

[Guest]

Re: Conn 650 vs 580+$600??



I think 3 FULL manuals is better than short manuals. A full 32 note pedal board is better than 13 or 24 pedals. Even of the specs of the organs are the same, a full size organ is better than a small one - especially if you intend to go around and play on real pipe organs. The difference in pedals from 13 to 32 can make your feet go crazy.

Frankly, I prefer the 651 because it does not use the typical Conn couplers for the complex voices (i.e. non-tibia) on the great and solo (which the 652 had). But the 650 has load and soft strings which the 651 doesn't have because it had more reed voices. There are a few other differences, but I'd take a 650 or 651 over the 652 mainly due to the old use of couplers for all non-tibia voices on the 652. I recall the 650 has the chimes on the solo where the 651 has it on the acomp - where the solo makes more sense for general playing.

If the 650 is in full working condition for $500 - I'd go for it. Even if it needs contact cleaning, it is a good bargain. The 650 is fun to play and remember - having full keyboards and full pedal board makes it easy for you to go to any pipe organ and feel comfortable without having to get freaked out by extra keys and where your feet should go.

For our local Puget Sound Theater Organ Socirty, I donated a Thomas Palace-III. They knew that a full size 3 manual organ was much better for students than a 2 manual or a 3 manual "spinette" size organ.