Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay

[Guest]

Hello all

There is a Baldwin Cinema II for sale about 45 minutes drive from me, asking $500 or best offer. He'll never get $500 around here I know for a fact they all go to the dump.. Anyways, I'm thinking about taking the drive out to see it, part of an estate , so I doubt the person listing it has any clue whether its fully functional..

I'm in the market for a larger organ moving up from an old Wurly Omni spinet I want a full pedalboard and keyboards and this might be the trick to get me thru for a year or so till something better comes along OR it just may be a keeper..

Is this a decent sounding organ if and/or it's fully functional , problem prone andor should I run the other way and not bother to even go for a look?

thanks

[james]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



I hope by checking this Baldwin out you will find out the conditon it is in at that time.One thing that many people don't realize is that when these organs sit around for sometime without having elec current going through them they tend to not function in more ways than one. One is the contacts need that current to keep them clean and free of dust and corrosion from the elec parts. Also, the more they are played usually the better they work.

I am not a Baldwin fan, and I hope you can hang on to your Wurlitzer. This Baldwin will have a full sound with lots of power, and they are most attractive. It has a lot of features if they are still usuable, etc. I would make an offer of less than $500 since as we both know they often go to the dump. The people who have it will be lucky to get a few bucks for it. I have a Baldwin here that needs the dump or someone could have it for parts.

If you can do some of the possible work inside or if there is a tech nearby you might consider what these options are for you. This model of Baldwin if I remember correctly does have the all new "clear flutes" that the older models didn't have, and they can provide a very nice as well as rich sound. They other features in the way of stops have very realistic sounds as well as there are all kinds of special effects since it is a theater organ. If it works or you can afford to have it fixed it is a nice Baldwin compared to some ofthe older Baldwinswhich to me have just a loud tone that is brassy and buzzy when you add strings. They are just not my favorites at all.

Let me know how matters turn out for you. I hope others will have some input on this Baldwin here on the forum.

James

[Guest]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Thank-you for your reply. I have to do some thinking on this

PK

[andyg]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



This model Baldwin does indeed have some very nice sounding Tibias and isn't at all buzzy like the older ones.The rest of the theatre style voicing is OK, but the rhythm section is not the best around. Reliability? I don't think the Baldwins of that era were the best of the bunch but they're not the worst either. Spares can be a problem with all organs of this era. Many problems can be solved quite easily but if a no-longer-available bespoke part goes belly-up, that's it. That's one of the main reasons prices are so low - you're inevitably taking a slight risk. Offer $200 and think carefully before paying much more.

Andy G

[crossyinoz]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Guess no-one will want this one, then.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=120368513130

Cheers,

Ian

[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Regarding your Ebay Link -- Boy is that seller misnamed. No Bargain there!

Regarding the Cinema II in general. Several years ago I would have paid the $500 without a second thought. Today's market (and our resources) is vastly different. Sellers have some outdated ideas that instruments will always work the way they did when new. In the real world of 70's technology, it wasn't meant to last forever.

If you really love a good theater console this is a good organ to negotiate on.

[Guest]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Even new, 1970's technology didn't always work as planned every time you turned it on.

Randy

[Philip the organist]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Petek,

No, do not get the Cinema II. We were given a Baldwin 210a at church (essentially the same model, 25n ped, 61k man) and it was a thorn in the flesh from the day we brought it into the building to the day it was hauled away for free after being on craigslist.

We ended up going back to the Allen Theatre Compact (spinet) because it held up well, stays in tune, and the flutes sounded like flutes (the only oscillators in the organ, no tone coloring, all duplexed). At least it is better than the Baldwin.

That poor 210a. The keys seemed both mushy and grinding at once, almost like a super-super light tracker touch. The sound I found very cloying. It was OK if you wanted to play "South of the Border" or things of that nature, but to play anything sacred or classical, it was a nightmare. Cabinet design--um, unique. The stoptablets were hard to reach (even though I am 6' 3") and they clacked around like a baby rattle. One good thing-The brush effect sounded eerily real.

I don't know your situation, but I would not spend $500 for this organ. I might take it for free if I were bereaved of my ADC 420, there were no other organs left on the planet, and I were alone on a desert isle.

My $0.02

[james]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Philip,

Your post just goes to show how well the much older analog organs have held up. They were built like a battle ship with componets that would be around for a number of years. I saw an old tube Conn Minuet on Craigslist I wouldn't mind having, but I do feel they are asking too much as well as for me it would be a cost I can't afford right now to get it delivered. Philip, while the Allen might not have as much as the Baldwin, you can see which organ was built better to do what it could. It is good that the Allen has those upper pitches, and for a few decent solo stops two or three of the pitches can be combined to do a satisfactory job. Hammond organists have been doing that for years.

Those days organs were made to play or for someone to learn to play properly. When they first started with the follow along rhythms, and a few effects it seems that just started their beginnings to add so many features that so many of the brands just became a self playing stereo or sound system as I hear them called nowdays. Many of the organs began to have cheper cabinet, light weight of coarse, and seemed to me to lose the reason for an organ which IMHO is to sound well as an electronic organ. A few did quite well regarding a close to realistic pipe organ sound with any of the extra whirling speakers be they Leslie of whatever.

Many people like those extra features which can be nice, but often there is always some service problems to crop up, and for the most part it can seemingly be with those extra features. However, being electronic most anything can go wrong with them.

I had a chance to have a Baldwin Cinema II organ when I traded my Conn 650 for the Baldwin Church Organ model 48C. The deal was an even swap two for one. However, the tech agreed to fix the church organ to function as closely as possible to its original condition, and the Cinema II I would have been liable for all parts and labor. I chose to only have the one large Baldwin.

Guys we need to keep sharing our experiences as well as info. It is all educational.

James

[crossyinoz]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



[quote user="Philip the organist"]do not get the Cinema II. We were given a Baldwin 210a at church (essentially the same model, 25n ped, 61k man) [/quote]

Philip,

Beware opening your mouth before thinking about the facts, you may just put your foot in it. The 210A & Cinema II are NOT essentially the same model. Apart from a release date difference of up to 5 years (depending on the Cinema II version) and a price differential of around $4200, both in favour of Cinema II, there are many others eg:

• Cinema II has a 32 note pedal board, 210A does not.


• Stop Lists are different, in favour of Cinema II


• Cinema has tabs, 210A has rocker switches.


• Amplification systemsare different etc. etc.
[/list]


If you really want to compare the Cinema II with another Baldwin model, I suggest you try the 213 Series Studio II.



I'm not really a Baldwin fan, but I wouldn't cane a particular instrument by attempting to compare it with something way below in specification. Remind me never to bequeath anything to your church, oh, and don't thorns usually occur in the side?



Kam-pai,



Ian

[Philip the organist]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Ian,

Yep, my foot is in my mouth. I am so very sorry. Some other know-it-all decided to list a 210a on eBay as a Cinema II (maybe to fetch a higher bid) and that was my only time ever encountering the Cinema II name. So from that auction I thought they were the same thing, and decided to offer my story of the 210.

My apologies.

[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Don't feel too badly Philip, except for the few who have "the blue book" available, most of us have only a collection of experiences to relate to and it can be confusing about which model when. As you state on Ebay, many people have very inaccurate listings because they often aren't organ people at all. They find a vague reference to a model somewhere and use it in their selling description. Most don't have a clue where to find the model # plate and I've even seen some photographed that were misread.

I understand you were trying to help and you are correct, the 210 is probably the low point of Baldwin history. It is one of the few organs I have ever walked away from in a resale store. Could have had one for $60 even before prices fell and couldn't shake the sense that it should have been called an electric accordian.

[james]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Philip,

As you have already read on here I tend to put the Baldwins all in one pkg, that is they are not all that reliable. I hated the older ones, but the church model I have is a bit better than the older models. A tech told me that is was nothing but a Thomas under the hood. He knows more about them than I do, but I do know this church model does sound OK for general church music. However, it would be out of place with an evangelical type church.

As mentioned I did not want theCinema II althoughit was somewhat attractive, but on an organ I didn't like those round huge radio type dials for setting different modes or shading of tones or whatever the heck they were used for on them.

I know you are better off with the Allen at your church than that Baldwin 210 IMHO. I am going on memory here, but the Cinema II had many of the same features as the 210 and very close or maybe the same stop list.

James

[andyg]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Crossy beat me to it, Philip, or I would have made the same points.

Do remember too that the 210 was essentially a theatre style instrument with voicing and features to match. It was never intended to be a classical instrument. The same thing applies to the Cinema II, of course.

As for specifications and sound, the Cinema II and Studio II were a generation or two later than the 210 and sounded different, even though the specifications on paper were similar.

Yes, there are a few of us on here with 40 years + experience of the business, and even we dip into the BB at times to make sure we don't put feet in mouths - hopefully! [:O]

Andy

[Guest]

Re: Baldwin Cinema II yea or nay



Here's the link btw, she says it is in good condition but I've heard that before and gone to find a piece of garbage that the kids andgrand-babies have had fun beating on. LOL

I hate to go and low ball her even though I'm almost positive nobody is going to buy it.. I guess I could tell her to call me if she doesn't sell it to call me and accept a low offer.

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-se...QAdIdZ91552807