Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Searching The Forum

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Searching The Forum

    There's a lot of information here on the Organ Forum and finding what you're looking for can be a difficult task.

    This thread is for the discussion of the Organ Forum's search engine and how to get the most out of it.

    The posts that immediately follow were split off from another discussion and moved here to make them, err.. easier to search for.
    Last edited by Admin; 09-15-2010, 08:42 AM. Reason: clarified searching method
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

  • #2
    Here begins the posts imported from the thread where this discussion begin. dzlvs8 had asked about searching for Leslie oil. Admin responds:


    Originally posted by Admin

    If you want to search for Leslie oil, enter "Leslie oil" with the quotes. The forum search engine searches the title and body for the words you entered. Posts containing one or more words in your search terms will match. Putting quotes around "Leslie oil" will match only those posts containing the phrase "Leslie oil"

    This is how most search engines work.
    Thanks for the info Admin. That is very helpful. I always saw the keywords it was searching for and it didnt seem to pull up anything but the keywords. The ONLY way to pull up words besides keywords is to have the item in quotes. Basically searching for leslie or leslie oil (without quotes) brings up the same exact search results. That is NOT normal for a forum based on the ones that i have used. It may be good for someone to put some instructions near the search area or on the advanced page saying "use quotes for searching non keyword items". Its just a suggestion but I think it would help.

    Im not a computer idiot and I have posted lots of valuable info on here over the last six months and it is almost impossible for me to find some of the stuff. Also everyone that I seem to refer to here comes back to me saying they couldnt find there info. Again, this is just fyi.
    My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

    My Baby B3.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

    The Goods
    B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

    Spare stuff
    Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dzlvs8 View Post
      I always saw the keywords it was searching for and it didnt seem to pull up anything but the keywords. The ONLY way to pull up words besides keywords is to have the item in quotes.
      I'm not sure what you mean by "pull up anything but the keywords". There is no keyword metadata in the posts themselves so the search is simply identifying any and all posts that contain any of the words you are specifying as keywords in your search. So if you enter Hammond drawbars into the search you get posts containing either the word Hammond OR the word drawbars.

      [ed. This is incorrect. The Search engine is And ing terms meaning that all terms in the search must be present in the result. More information in a later post.]

      This is the way most search engines including Google and Bing work, although they rank the results containing both higher. The Forum does not rank posts by relevance and the search has no way of specifying that you want only those posts with the words Hammond AND drawbars in them. [ed. see above comment] .The best you can do is search for phrases that you specify in quotes.

      The gotcha with the search you were performing was the word oil. For efficiency reasons, the search engine ignores words under four characters. So searching for Leslie oil or Leslie will bring up the same set of posts since the word oil is ignored. Using the phrase "Leslie oil" will provide what you're looking for in this case.

      As far as I know, what I've described here is the way most forum search engines work and is the default behavior (except for the four character word requirement) for the major search providers as well. I'd be happy to look at how other Forums are handling search differently if you'd care to send me links and examples.

      Due to the fact that much of the data here was imported from the previous forum platform, it is possible that it wasn't indexed fully or properly. I don't know that, but it is possible, and if so, there's not much I can do about it. Google, Bing, etc. do index this site so you could always search on them adding the word organforum to search criteria.

      Finally, the tags feature provides a way of attaching keywords to posts and is really a better way of locating topics of interest than a word search. Unfortunately most posters either don't know about them or fail to take the time to enter them.
      -Admin

      Allen 965
      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
      Hauptwerk 4.2

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree with Steve...I get frustrated trying to access anything in this archive. Searches usually yield hundreds of threads that have nothing to do with my initial search.
        I do not look at many forums, and really do not know the "rules"
        Some search functions have an "Advanced Search" or something similar that is good for dummies like myself.
        I wonder how many others like us are out there.
        This is not a criticism of this wonderfully informative forum , just a suggestion on a possible improvement.

        Bob
        In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.
        In reality, there is.
        '54 C-2 & Pair of 122 Leslies
        H-324/Series 10 TC
        '35 Model A (Serial# 41) with a 21H
        Look at some of my rescues:
        https://www.flickr.com/photos/58226398@N03/albums

        Comment


        • #5
          FYI- Actually, on Google and Bing when you type in two words it first brings up posts with BOTH words. Most search engines in forums and other places use a symbol to type in to signify searching for this OR that.

          According to how you are saying the search works (which, I also agree, it seems like it is works this way)
          When someone searches for the words - drawbars quiet - (for example) it should only bring up posts that have BOTH words in them. If not the search will bring up every single post that has the word drawbars (only). This makes the search function insanely difficult to use. I literally have typed in very specific sentences from my posts and when I search for that entire phrase, I get hundreds of other items also, and it has made it very hard to find some stuff i have been looking for.

          If it is possible to make changes to how the search function searches it would be good. Literally every week I refer people to here to find info on my mods and 95% of the people come back to me saying that they couldn't find the information because the search doesn't work right
          My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

          My Baby B3.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

          The Goods
          B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

          Spare stuff
          Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dzlvs8;216286
            According to how you are saying the search works (which, I also agree, it seems like it is works this way)
            [B
            When someone searches for the words - drawbars quiet - (for example) it should only bring up posts that have BOTH words in them. If not the search will bring up every single post that has the word drawbars (only). This makes the search function insanely difficult to use. I literally have typed in very specific sentences from my posts and when I search for that entire phrase, I get hundreds of other items also, and it has made it very hard to find some stuff i have been looking for. [/B]

            If it is possible to make changes to how the search function searches it would be good. Literally every week I refer people to here to find info on my mods and 95% of the people come back to me saying that they couldn't find the information because the search doesn't work right
            Looking into this further, I find that I was mistaken. The Forum Search is doing an AND by default

            The search Schober finds 58 threads
            The search Schober dorf brings up 7 -- clearly an and.

            The search for drawbars finds 500 items
            The search for drawbars quiet finds 54 items -- clearly an and.

            I'd like to see some examples of searches that are failing to find existing posts as an aid to fixing any problems with the search here. Also, links to forums with better search would be useful.
            Last edited by Admin; 09-16-2010, 09:06 AM. Reason: add drawbar search counts
            -Admin

            Allen 965
            Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
            Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
            Hauptwerk 4.2

            Comment


            • #7
              Admin, Try this: m3 study. It's not in the top 20 and the things that come up are not related. It should be an easy find as it is a thread I started.
              Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
              Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
              Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

              Comment


              • #8
                The search for M3 study in the search box finds your thread in the top 25 because it orders the search by date.

                If you use Advanced Search, enter M3 study as keywords, and order by relevance, your thread appears in the top 20 items returned.

                If you do the same and limit the search to titles it appears in the Top 5 results.

                You can set the default search order for your searches in Advanced Search
                Last edited by Admin; 09-16-2010, 02:27 PM. Reason: added info on advanced search
                -Admin

                Allen 965
                Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                Hauptwerk 4.2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bobmann View Post
                  Some search functions have an "Advanced Search" or something similar that is good ...
                  Bob
                  The link to the Advance Search is directly under the Search box at the top of the Forum
                  -Admin

                  Allen 965
                  Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                  Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                  Hauptwerk 4.2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think a helpful feature would be to search by a complete phrase. Some search engines either allow "phrase" as an option, or allow you to enclose a full phrase in quotes. I did try the phrase "gulbransen organ" in quotes as a test - but it brings up all posts that contain both of those words separately, whether as a contiguous phrase or not.

                    There is also something funny about how the "today's posts" list (which is actually a search from what I understand) is populated when I am logged in as opposed to when I am not logged in. I'll check the user settings to see if there is anything I have to tweak there.

                    I do think you are onto something about the older posts possibly not being indexed correctly - which I assume is out of your hands.

                    Thanks for providing this thread where we can keep all our searching issues together and hopefully the information everyone provides will help.

                    - jimmy
                    Jimmy Williams
                    Hobbyist (organist/technician)
                    Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The search function does indeed search for phrases.

                      Entering gulbransen organ in the search box returns 260 items
                      Entering "gulbransen organ" in the search box returns only 71

                      The first search returns posts containing both the word gulbransen and organ
                      The second search returns posts containing the phrase "gulbransen organ"

                      Keep in mind that a search box search includes both the text in the title as well as the body of the post.

                      Try it.
                      -Admin

                      Allen 965
                      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                      Hauptwerk 4.2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jimmywilliams View Post
                        There is also something funny about how the "today's posts" list (which is actually a search from what I understand) is populated when I am logged in as opposed to when I am not logged in. I'll check the user settings to see if there is anything I have to tweak there.
                        - jimmy
                        The today's post list shows your most recent unread posts. If you are signed in, it knows what you have read and will not include them. If you're not signed in it doesn't know who you are so the list it displays may well be different.
                        -Admin

                        Allen 965
                        Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                        Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                        Hauptwerk 4.2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jimmywilliams View Post
                          I do think you are onto something about the older posts possibly not being indexed correctly - which I assume is out of your hands.

                          Thanks for providing this thread where we can keep all our searching issues together and hopefully the information everyone provides will help.

                          - jimmy
                          I was wrong about that. Looking at the search box results for gulbransen organ I found posts going back two years ago to 2008 which were posted in the old forum.

                          Thanks for participating. I'm learning alot about how the search works here from everyone's input. Keep the examples and questions coming.
                          -Admin

                          Allen 965
                          Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                          Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                          Hauptwerk 4.2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Admin View Post
                            I am seeing what appears to be a limit of 100 posts being returned in some searches, Hammond for example, and this might prevent all relevant posts from being found. I'll check into this further.
                            I was wrong about this too. The current maximum result count is 500 threads. The confusion occurs due to the way the count is displayed.

                            At the bottom of the first page of search on Hammond it reads 20 of 100 and Page of 5. However, you click on the highest page in the page list, you'll find the search engine goes out, finds more matches and adds more pages. For the Hammond search there are actually 25 pages of data, before we bump up against the maximum of 500 results.
                            -Admin

                            Allen 965
                            Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                            Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                            Hauptwerk 4.2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One of the problems I have with the current search engine is that searches seem to find the thread, but not the exact page. This is especially frustrating if a thread has gone on for 7 pages and the item of interest is only on one page. It would be nice if that word were highlighted, perhaps the forum already functions that way but I have not noticed it, and if not, this may be the reason many people have trouble.

                              On the other hand, it is very hard and a bit unfair to compare forum search to Google search. However, we users can limit a Google search to the Organforum.com site by using the google site modifier. For example, in a google search engine form enter:
                              ADC4900 site: organforum.com and you will only get hits on this forum mentioning the ADC4900. Notice that it may not properly find posts prior to the new hosting provider, or if it does, they may not work.

                              A more elegant solution perhaps would be for Admin to create a Custom Google Search Engine for the site. I don't know if it would work here given the change in web hosts, but looks very cool: http://www.google.com/cse/

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X