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  • New analog classical church organ project

    Conn 427M Deluxe Caprice (1959) | Kimball 792 Swinger (1975, gutted for MIDI)

  • #2
    FPFF,

    While I applaud the concept, I can assure you that it will not be "relatively inexpensive", and if your main aim is to create "a fairly realistic pipe organ" effect, with opportunity for creative endeavour in achieving it, then I would like to suggest that you investigate what is now being achieved using jOrgan and the sound engine and soundfont techniques going along with it.

    I write as one with a background of playing pipe organs and a history of devoting much of my life to developing analogue organ techniques, and in jOrgan I have found an ideal way to create organ sounds of remarkable quality, but much more easily, and at a fraction of the cost.

    John Reimer

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    • #3
      Back in the "analog days" it was often lamented that there were so many circuits needed to make the simplest organ. The unreliability of oscillators staying in tune. The inability of making any sound change without massive circuit changes. Circuit noise from all the transistors or tubes etc. as well as the susceptibility of outside interference.

      Finally, we got digital. The ability to precisely recreate original sounds of pipes and most any other instrument. Precise tuning and the ability to change tunings on the fly. The ability to change or modify the sounds on the fly. Transposing, memory setting, hundreds of built in sounds, effects like reverb and chorus. Stuff we would have killed for...back in the day.

      So why oh why do so many want to go back to analog??

      Geo

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      • #4
        Originally posted by geoelectro View Post
        So why oh why do so many want to go back to analog??
        Geo
        Microsoft obsoleted Office 97 with a similarly named .dll file on windows XP to force you to upgrade. XP forced changes in mainboards that made them incompatible with Win98. Old programs didn't work on Win XP. You buy a PC, you are on a continual upgrade treadmill, buy, buy, buy, buy. You expect Jorgan to keep working with future versions of microsoft op system or replacement PC parts, you are living in la-la land. You get a hardware failure on a PC, after the big upgrade your whole system is garbage after 5 years or so. Conflictor virus obsoleted Windows XP, you had to buy a service pack to even stay still.
        On the other hand, the market for an analog organ would be zero with all the old stuff on CL now. People want cell phones and flat screen TV, they don't want anything requiring practice at a skill like an organ or a basketball hoop on the garage.
        city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

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        • #5
          Originally posted by indianajo View Post
          Microsoft obsoleted Office 97 with a similarly named .dll file on windows XP to force you to upgrade. XP forced changes in mainboards that made them incompatible with Win98. Old programs didn't work on Win XP. You buy a PC, you are on a continual upgrade treadmill, buy, buy, buy, buy. You expect Jorgan to keep working with future versions of microsoft op system or replacement PC parts, you are living in la-la land. You get a hardware failure on a PC, after the big upgrade your whole system is garbage after 5 years or so. Conflictor virus obsoleted Windows XP, you had to buy a service pack to even stay still.
          On the other hand, the market for an analog organ would be zero with all the old stuff on CL now. People want cell phones and flat screen TV, they don't want anything requiring practice at a skill like an organ or a basketball hoop on the garage.
          Conn 427M Deluxe Caprice (1959) | Kimball 792 Swinger (1975, gutted for MIDI)

          Comment


          • #6
            Cool. Javascript is pretty stable, maybe microsoft planned obsolesence doesn't apply to jorgan. I have a DC voltage percussion contact on the UM of my H1100, a dc "brush" contact on both manuals, if I use both contacts for a midi encoder I'll have velocity controlled UM midi for my H100 without losing anything. I run ubuntu linux on this PC, nobody bothers to write virus's for it. Javescripts seem to run fine on ver 8.0, even though I'm about a year out of date on upgrading to 10.0.
            Op amps have been a stable technology for about 15 years, I'm dipping my toe into them to add functions to my H100. The op amp disco mixer seems to work well with a tube power amp, plays LP's, CD's, FM all without switching. Op amp percussion for the lower manual- my latest dream. String accomp preset sounds funny without a soft start like a string.
            city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by indianajo View Post
              Conflictor virus obsoleted Windows XP, you had to buy a service pack to even stay still.
              Windows XP obsolete? I don't think so. Two generations removed from the latest, and you can no longer license a new copy, but still in extensive use throughout corporate and non-corporate world, and still being supported by Microsoft. If you paid for a Windows Service Pack you were scammed. They are, and always have been free. BTW, I have Gateway laptop from 1998 that still runs Win98 and the software of that era perfectly fine, but far less smoothly and reliably than modern computers.

              Things change. It most frequently is progress, although the nostalgia for the past can make it seem otherwise.

              At this point in time there is absolutely no advantage - practically, sonically, or financially, to build an analog organ. Dollar for dollar the digital implementation will sound better, be more flexible, and be more scalable.

              It's great to conjecture on such a project and given the knowledge, skill, and money you might be able to actually build a decent instrument, but it was all done and peaked back in the '70's by Saville, AOB, and others. If analog organs were so great, where are those manufacturers today? How many of those instruments are still in use and servicable?
              -Admin

              Allen 965
              Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
              Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
              Hauptwerk 4.2

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              • #8
                like Admin said Unless your building the "70's" style organ there is no reason to have it analog.
                The main thing analog is used for in audio today is to "color" the sound (as with tubes) and to prevent aliasing. even then a properly coded emulator can come pretty dang close to analog now and days.
                '60 RT-3
                '69 Leslie 147RV
                '77 Yamaha E-70
                '4x Conn Connsonata 2A2
                '6x L-133A

                Previous:
                '5x M2, '59 Leslie 25, '48 CV, '64 A-102, '6x M-143, '5x M3, '81 kimball stardust,
                '8x Hammond Aurora, A-102, M2, another M2, Wurlitzer spinet, Wersi DX350, Thomas chordian

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                • #9
                  Windows XP is no longer being supported by Microsoft, I understand. I regret it very much because I have a couple of applications that will not run under Windows 7 and there are no modern versions available for them that function the same (and the differences are important to me). Supposedly, I should be able to run them on the XP emulator in W7, but I've not been able to figure out how to do that. My guru friend recommends I run Ubuntu, which he says has a good XP emulator.

                  David

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                  • #10
                    "Extended support" for XP is in effect until April 8, 2014. I take that to mean that they will continue to do security updates until then. I'm certainly still receiving them at least monthly although technically support ended sometime in '09 IIRC. (Just received a daylight savings time update today)

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                    • #11
                      I purchased the XP emulator upgrade for Windows 7. It works well and runs programs that will not run under Windows &. It is quite easy to use, just start the Windows XP virtual machine. The XP can access the main hard disk as if it were a network drive. Just install your program in the XP virtual machine, it will run fine as long as it is NOT a program that only runs in full screen mode.

                      The virtual XP machine window looks exactly like the remote desktop of a normal XP computer. The XP can access the Internet (and network) using the Windows 7 hardware. The XP virtual machine is a life saver since some software is not supported under Windows 7 and probably never will be.
                      Allan

                      My home organ
                      Style D Wurlitzer pipe organ
                      http://bluemoonwalkinghorses.com/Sty...tion5_rev3.htm
                      Five Newfoundland dogs
                      Sixteen Tennessee walking horseshoes

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