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  • Advice needed - Jubileum 232 - no sound

    Hi

    I'm new to these forums and hoping for some pointers. My mother has a Jubiluem 232 which has served her well for many years but recently it has stopped producing sound (it does appear to still be getting power however).

    I'm planning on visiting her this coming weekend to take a closer look "under the hood" but was wondering if anyone has any pointers as to any obvious first things to look for with this model organ.

    I am not familiar with electronic organs but am fairly handy with other electronic things and have repaired stereo amplifiers, pinball machines etc, so feel comfortable with having a crack at this.

    Would be grateful for any advice.

    Many thanks,
    MD
    Last edited by Admin; 06-02-2015, 05:52 AM. Reason: Corrected spelling of model

  • #2
    I'm not familiar with a jubiluem 232, but in general organs made 1960-1980 have many common parts and similar failure modes. Ones post 1965 have cheap brass or tin plate connectors that gather oxide from the air, which is incompatible with low voltage low current signals after a decade or so. The cure for this is to disconnect and reconnect all connectors with the power off. This includes card edge connectors especially, and IC's in sockets if those sockets are tin plate instead of phosphor bronze. Use a lot of light, remove any latches with a pick or screwdriver so as to not break them. IC's you pry each end out a little at a time with a bent tip pick to not bend the pins. Post 1976 IC's can be sensitive to static on your hands so ground yourself before touching them or removing and replacing any connectors. You can spray tab switches that are blocking sound with the tube of a can of aliphatic hydrocarbon contact cleaner, in most cases. No smoking, open flame, electricity turned on and off within 10 m of spray, set up a fan beforehand to dissipate the fumes.
    Another form of oxidized connector is the wiper on volume potentiometers. These can be sometimes cleaned by moving the adjustment back and forth, or sometimes these have to be sprayed out. Some organs have a volume pot on the loud pedal, some have a CDS cell light bulb and variable width shutter. Sudden failure can be the burn out of the light bulb. Gradual failure can be the CDS photocell. Also in the bottom, damage to wires can occur from moving, even just in and out for cleaning, or mice can eat the wires that are blocking their nice cozy nest site.
    The third common problem can be power supply failure. Organs before 1985 have transformer-rectifier-filter capacitor DC power supplies. After about 15-20 years the rubber seals in the electrolytic filter capacitors go bad, the water evaporates out, and these can get electrically leaky, or short out. When this happens they can blow the rectifier, a fuse, or a low wattage resistor designed to blow instead of a fuse. These are the two large capacitors near the power transformer, usually. Those two often go first. You have to check the rectifier fuse or resistors with a DVM, which you needed anyway to follow the safety procedures in the safety sticky thread (working under hammond thread, not working here). If you don't know how to use one, read Thomas Floyd, Electronic Devices the Electron Flow version or some equivalent text used by your local community college or trade school. You can prove a problem with the power supply by measuring it with the power on at about 80% of the rating printed on the side of the capacitors. One does not measure the capacitors, they are non-linear based on temperature and the Peak cap-ESR meter is $120 anyway whereas every e-cap in the organ can be replaced probably for $80 or less.
    Other overage electrolytic capacitors in analog organs can block bass or treble and in general make them sound *****y. In any consumer electronic device, once something is wrong and the calender says e-caps are suspect, I usually change them all, not just one or two. But I change them one or two at a time and then check for improved function, any amateur makes a lot of bad solder joints. If you just put two parts in and it got worse, you pretty well know where your problem will be without a lot of general troubleshooting.
    Digital organs, if it is not the connectors, or the power amp it could be anything, mostly parts you cannot buy. These, if you can't prove the sound is coming out of the generator areas with an analog VOM (2 vac scale) or scope, you need a donor organ or to the scrap heap, usually. Then go looking for a 1965-1979 all analog model, IMHO. even a broken one is more likely to be repairable than most digitals.
    So, have fun.
    city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey indianajo - thanks so much for such a detailed response. Very helpful and gives me a good starting point. Have fun? We'll see. I'll be sure to report back.

      Cheers,
      MD

      Comment


      • #4
        Mungo, that name doesn't sound right and suggest you check at your mother's home for a model number as well as the spelling of the J........ name. Sounds kinda
        Italian so may be built by GEM, Viscount or Galanti.

        . . . Jan
        the OrganGrinder

        Comment


        • #5
          Viscount made a Jubileum 232 - this one: http://en.audiofanzine.com/organ/vis...,m.404295.html
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, that's the one. Her manual lists three model #'s: 227, 232 and 235. She has the 232.

            I found reference to what appears to be the same organ on another website but using the name "Jubilate".

            Comment


            • #7
              Update - I spent a couple of hours looking at the organ this past weekend. I have to say I was very impressed with the way it is put together. Once the back panel is popped off everything is very well laid out and accessible. Anyway, I progressively pulled and re-seated all boards, connectors, and socketed ICs. When I got to the main fuses I noticed that two were blown (marked as F3 and F4, both T3.15AL 250V). Apart from that I couldn't see any obvious problems - it was very clean inside, very little dust. None of the boards appeared to have any obviously blown components so it seems I have my work cut out for me. The only thing I found was a 3v button battery which was mounted on the CPU board and showing signs of leaking so I cut that out. The organ was purchased in 1993 so it's now over 20 years old.

              I put in some replacement fuses, powered it on and they just blew again. No sign of life. My mother commented that before she was at least getting lights behind the stop buttons. I don't know if removing the button battery may have affected that - I know that some computers play completely dead if there is no battery present (or it is dead).

              Anyway, some photos are below for anyone who is interested. I forgot to take a photo of the board with the fuses on it.

              I would be grateful if anyone has any idea where I might be able to locate either schematics or a service manual for this. I'm keen obviously to better understand what F3 and F4 look after. Alternately, any sage advice about where to go next would be appreciated.

              Cheers,
              MD

              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Some more pics:
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by indianajo View Post
                  The third common problem can be power supply failure. Organs before 1985 have transformer-rectifier-filter capacitor DC power supplies. After about 15-20 years the rubber seals in the electrolytic filter capacitors go bad, the water evaporates out, and these can get electrically leaky, or short out. When this happens they can blow the rectifier, a fuse, or a low wattage resistor designed to blow instead of a fuse. These are the two large capacitors near the power transformer, usually. Those two often go first. You have to check the rectifier fuse or resistors with a DVM, which you needed anyway to follow the safety procedures in the safety sticky thread (working under hammond thread, not working here). If you don't know how to use one, read Thomas Floyd, Electronic Devices the Electron Flow version or some equivalent text used by your local community college or trade school. You can prove a problem with the power supply by measuring it with the power on at about 80% of the rating printed on the side of the capacitors. One does not measure the capacitors, they are non-linear based on temperature and the Peak cap-ESR meter is $120 anyway whereas every e-cap in the organ can be replaced probably for $80 or less.
                  Other overage electrolytic capacitors in analog organs can block bass or treble and in general make them sound *****y. In any consumer electronic device, once something is wrong and the calender says e-caps are suspect, I usually change them all, not just one or two. But I change them one or two at a time and then check for improved function, any amateur makes a lot of bad solder joints. If you just put two parts in and it got worse, you pretty well know where your problem will be without a lot of general troubleshooting.
                  Replacing fuses that blow is a fairly useless activity. This organ is new enough, it might have a switcher DC power supply. These IMHO are not repairable by amateurs, and have some fairly lethal voltages if you try. If you can figure out what voltages a switcher supply was supplying you can buy a non-identical replacement power supply easily enough, but that requires detective work. Sometimes the pins are labeled, usually not. If the big power transformer in the bottom doesn't supply all the voltages, only the two for the power amp, then you are out of luck. That board next to the power transformer looks key, but doesn't have any electrolytic caps on it. The ones on the right hand board in the cage seem to be the biggest ones. If the power transformer does supply more than 2 voltages (more wires out than 3 secondaries) then you may be in luck, your problem could be amateur repaired. check the diodes probably on that small board in the bottom. Not usually a problem by 1993 but theoretically a diode or bridge rectifier could cause that problem. Read the book on how.
                  One may check power amps with defects with a light bulb box in series with the power cord hot. this is a grounded vented metal chassis with a light bulb socket in it, a bulb, 60w usually for amps up to 200 W, a circuitbreaker. the AC hot goes through the breaker and the light bulb. If the power is turned on, and the light bulb lights and stays lit, the short blowing the breaker will be identifyable with a meter without blowing the fuse. Before I wasted any time doing that however, I'd replace all the big e-caps. Up to you.
                  city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If both fuses are blowing instantly then the short shouldn't be too hard to find with an ohmmeter. This is a simple power supply. Rectifiers, capacitors, and voltage regulators. I would start with the rectifiers connected to those fuses. Any regulators on that line would give a clue as to what circuit it supplies voltage. Most regulators however will shut down if there is a short in the circuit they supply.
                    If a short can't be found then I would remove the board from the mother board then power it on to see if fuses still blow.
                    If they don't blow then put it back and remove all other boards to see if the fuses blow.
                    If a schematic can't be found you could draw that part of the circuit to see if it's a regulated or unregulated output and which pins are used for the output.
                    Generally an unregulated output goes to the power amps, regulated goes to digital and analog circuits.

                    td
                    Last edited by tucsondave; 05-18-2015, 05:02 AM.
                    Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow! What a clean-looking, neat organ! I've been messing with old Hammonds and two 70s organs. Compared to them, that organ looks so organized and simple. Of course, I expect the keyboards to be a rat's nest of connections... Good on you for being willing to get into the innards of it. (Has she reminded you of how she carried you for nine months? Mine does that when she wants something.)

                      SP
                      -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic -- 1899 Kimball, Rodgers W5000C, Conn 643, Hammond M3, L-102 - "Let no man belong to another who can belong to himself." (Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest​ -) ​Paracelsus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Silken Path View Post
                        (Has she reminded you of how she carried you for nine months? Mine does that when she wants something.)

                        SP
                        I haven't had that card played yet thankfully. It was bad enough dealing with the raised eyebrows when I told my friends at work that I spent half of Saturday messing around with my mother's organ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks to everyone for advice and guidance so far. I have just come back from a followup visit to take a closer look at things. Below is a pic of the power supply board. My multimeter tells me that the rectifier labelled D5 and which runs directly off the two fuses which are blowing is bad. The other two rectifiers appear good and there are no visible signs that the caps may be bad. So I'll replace the D5 rect, cross my fingers and see what happens. But... any tips as to how to correctly match the rectifier. It has KBL 402 printed on it and above that the letters QTE and then the reverse UR which I gather is a standards certification marking. Google suggests it is a 4A rectifier but how do I best determine the correct voltage?


                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by MungoDragons; 06-02-2015, 06:03 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The 400 v or 600 v rated bridge rectifiers designed for switcher power supplies will work fine also on 30 v or whatever this rectifier is producing. The higher current ones mostly fit, look at the dimensions pin to pin on the selector chart. Mouser or digikey may make you download the datasheet to get the dimensions, newark will have it on the selector table. If you have a dead switcher supply from a PC or something, you may be able to salvage a rectifier out of that. I have a half dozen of various sizes salvage. Make sure to match the AC in and + - pins out, but the design of those vertical PC mount bridges is pretty standard. UL listed bridges are internally fused I believe; a e-cap either on the board, down the line, or an output transistor on the power amp , could have taken it out.
                            It cost $7-10 freight to get a box from newark 700 miles, do you really want to save the $20 to buy all the e-caps and save those problems for another day? I was talking to a retired maintenance man Saturday trying to activate a generator in the middle of a power failure. He even fixes those $700 furnace control boards by replacing all the e-caps - at least he fixed one that way. I just repair organs, hifis, radios, PC's and the like with that sort of repair. Only I use the >3000 hour service life variety e-cap as replacement, not the 500 hour service life ones favored by vendors as a planned obsolescence feature.
                            city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              KBL402 is 4 amp 200 volt

                              First number is amperage, second is voltage.
                              4 = 4 amps
                              02 = 200 volt

                              If label was 2504 then it would be 25 amps at 400 volts.

                              td
                              Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                              Comment

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