Allen Organ ADC 1110 4 Consecutive Notes in Both Manuals are Dead

[Russ Tapp]

We recently acquired an Allen ADC 1110 (1985) in perfect working order and has been well taken care of. We placed it in our music studio as a practice organ and to add midi capability to be able to use Hauptwerk Virtual Organs.

We purchased a Midi Conversion Kit for Two Manual Organ from Artisan Organs. We are desiring to keep the Allen playing and was instructed that this midi kit would work while keeping the Allen ability to play the internal organ.
We were instructed that all we had to do was to just attach the wires on the inside of the diode the same as the diode connects to the key contact. We wired the Great manual as instructed...no problem. Oh, we also disconnected the pedal board to work on the manuals.

Now for the problem we are having:

After wiring only the Great manual for Midi (we did not connect the input board to any power supply or connected it to the Midi controller) we powered on the organ with the pedal board still detached to check to see if we screwed anything up and that the internal organ would still play correctly.

After powering up, the only issue we are having is that there are 4 consecutive dead notes (G#5 -A5 -A#5 -B5 at the top end or keys 57-60) on both the Great and Swell)

Would this be a key contact issue? I am stumped and could not find any thread in the forum that dealt with this issue. I hope that you could help us in troubleshooting this issue.

Thanks so much in advance!

[jbird604]

Allen keyboards of that era are wired up in a matrix. Groups of four adjacent keys are wired together, and you should see that the four leaf switches for those keys are connected by a common buss wire. That is the "group" to which those notes belong. Both keyboards use the same group numbers for the same keys. The notes you name are all part of group # 14.

The system distinguishes among the eight keys in a group (four swell notes, four great notes = 8 keys in a group) by connecting each one to a different "block" wire. But since your dead notes are all in the same "group" it is the group wire that is your problem.

So, given the symptom, you have a break or disconnect in the "group #14" wire that runs from the multiplexer board to the keystack. Since you just did some soldering on the key switches, I'd guess that you accidentally unsoldered a wire somewhere. Follow the circuit carefully from the four dead notes all the way back to the multiplexer board and see where the break is. I'm guessing you'll find it right away, where group #14 is connected to a very small white wire on one of the keyboards.

[Russ Tapp]

SOLVED: Allen Organ ADC 1110 4 Consecutive Notes in Both Manuals are Dead

Allen keyboards of that era are wired up in a matrix. Groups of four adjacent keys are wired together, and you should see that the four leaf switches for those keys are connected by a common buss wire. That is the "group" to which those notes belong. Both keyboards use the same group numbers for the same keys. The notes you name are all part of group # 14.

The system distinguishes among the eight keys in a group (four swell notes, four great notes = 8 keys in a group) by connecting each one to a different "block" wire. But since your dead notes are all in the same "group" it is the group wire that is your problem.

So, given the symptom, you have a break or disconnect in the "group #14" wire that runs from the multiplexer board to the keystack. Since you just did some soldering on the key switches, I'd guess that you accidentally unsoldered a wire somewhere. Follow the circuit carefully from the four dead notes all the way back to the multiplexer board and see where the break is. I'm guessing you'll find it right away, where group #14 is connected to a very small white wire on one of the keyboards.

John,

Thank you so much for your quick reply! I did discover that one of the 2 light gray wires that are connected to those 4 consecutive notes on the Great was broken. We repaired it and those notes are working again on both manuals. Thanks so much for your expertise. It is much appreciated.

I have one other question if I may:

Our first priority is to install the midi and get the organ functional as a VPO and second to be able to keep the Allen playable. This is my first attempt at attempting any wiring on an organ so forgive me if my question is elementary in nature.

I understand that most folks just want to convert the console to a VPO midi controller and have no wish to keep the onboard organ playable. We initially acquired the organ to use as a VPO but since the console was in such good shape my partner decided that he wanted to keep the organ functioning on it's own so that he could just turn the console on and use it as a practice organ without having to also power up the computer and Hauptwerk. I personally think that it's too complicated and unnecessary to have both capabilities.

So, my technical question is in how to properly attach the wire that connects to the midi input board to each key contact. The support guy at Artisan Organ where we purchased the midi-conversion kit at first thought that we did not wish to keep the organ playable...so he instructed us to clip the diodes and to make the connection from the input board directly to the contact leaf. But when he realized that we wanted to keep the Allen playing he said to just attach the wires on the inside of the diode the same as the diode connects to the key contact.

So my question is if we are connecting the wire to the diode correctly. As of now we are just wrapping the wire around the inside of the diode. I have attached an image to illustrate and here is a link to a picture to illustrate: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5skhoz83jz...10.42.jpg?dl=0. Is this the right way to wire it? Some of the wires are making contact with the diode but are somewhat loose. Do they need to be tight? Do we have this thing figured wrong? Should they be soldered? The Artisan Tech said that no soldering was required.

We did accidentally break one diode on one key contact right in the middle of that copper colored tube thingy (LOL. Forgive me but I don't know what that is called)....so until we can get a replacement diode for that contact do we need to solder the midi wire to the metal round connector that the diode is soldered to? Or can we loop it through the hole of the contact without soldering?

Thanks for your help!

[jbird604]

Note to Forum: I sent him a PM with a link to purchase these little signal diodes on Amazon. Pack of 100 for just over $5. Advised him to observe polarity when installing new ones in place of the broken ones, making sure the "band" faces the same direction as the original diode.

Also advised that the wire wrapping shown in the pic doesn't looks very secure, and I recommend soldering these wires in place. However, it might work if the wires are securely wrapped or crimped in place. They must make firm contact and not be subject to intermittency when vibrated by the inevitable motions of playing the keys.

I have not used an Artisan encoder, so I'm not familiar with its operation. But if Artisan said it would work without disrupting the native Allen voices, they should know what they are talking about.

Good luck!

[Russ Tapp]

Midi wires are not transmitting a sustained signal.

Hello John,

Yes you are correct I think about needing to solder the wires. We have completed wiring the Great & Swell and powered up the midi controller to see if we are getting midi signals at all. We are getting midi signals but they play intermittently fast. When you hold down a key to play a sustained note the note plays rapidly fast but intermittently. When holding a wire firmly to the contact or the diode it still just plays repeatedly note. I took a screen shot of the midi track I recorded of a sustained note:



So if soldering is the solution what type of soldering iron or gun do we need to complete the task since these wires and contacts are so tiny? I have soldered things before but they were much larger gauged wires. I'm afraid of melting the diode connections.

Oh, one more thing, could the cause of the intermittent or repeated sustain note be a voltage problem? The Artisan Midi Kit came with a 5V switching power supply that I connected as instructed.

Thanks for your help!
--
Russ

[John Kinkennon]

I may be mistaken of course but I do not see any Artisan Organ products designed to work with an Allen 11x6 matrix manual without removing the existing wiring and diodes. If the intention is to create a virtual ONLY instrument then remove the diodes first and then do the wiring properly with a soldering iron.

EDIT: Purchase an inexpensive 30 watt pencil style soldering iron if this is the only soldering you plan to do. Sparkfun sells one for $12.95.

[Russ Tapp]

Hey John,

Thanks so much for your expertise! I think it best that we relent to disconnecting the Allen circuitry after all.

How is that accomplished? Do we clip all the diodes? If so do I clip them before or after the band on the diode? Then do we have to remove the soldering from the diode that is connected to the contact? Do I also need to disconnect the Allen wire on the common? Do we also need to clip the common bus wires?

Also how do we do this on the magnetic pedal division? I'm not able to determine where the common wire is on the pedal board. If you could be specific on how to wire the pedal board that would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much for your help again! And thanks for giving me so much of your time!
--
Russ

[Russ Tapp]

Allen ADC 1110 Disconecting Keying Circuitry to Install Midi Conversion Kit

After attempting to add an Artisan midi conversion kit to an Allen ADC 1110 while keeping the internal organ playing I have come to realize through the expert help from moderator John, that the Artisan Midi System is not compatible with the Allen ADC Keying Matrix System.

I think it best that we relent to disconnecting the Allen circuitry after all.

Since this is my first project of this type and that I am a complete mechanical novice I could use this forums DIY expertise. So any detailed instructions on how to accomplish disconnecting the Allen ADC keying circuitry would be hugely appreciated.


1. Do we clip all the diodes? If so do I clip them before or after the band on the diode? Then do we have to remove the soldering from the diode that is connected to the contact?

2. Do I also need to disconnect the Allen wire on the common? Do we also need to clip the common bus wires?

3. Also how do we do this on the magnetic pedal division? I'm not able to determine where the common wire is on the pedal board. If you could be specific on how to wire the pedal board that would be much appreciated.

Thanks to everyone for your patience with an electronic newbie!
--
Russ

[jbird604]

I think you'll have to consult Artisan with those questions, as I have no experience with connecting that particular encoder to an Allen. My guess is that you simply remove the diodes, since they have no function other than to isolate the keying group for the Allen multiplexer.

Some encoders, perhaps most, will need you to connect all the common busses together, then connect the +5 volts to the Artisan supply. But I'm speculating, so get with Artisan before you do anything.

As to the pedal reed switches, they are delicate, so be sure to take care when soldering to the leads. You may discover that there are common busses, as the pedal notes are in groups of four just like the manual keys. If so, you can use the existing buss wires and tie them all together as a common for the entire pedal set, if that is the way Artisan wants them wired.

Keep up the good work!

[Russ Tapp]

Thanks John!

When I communicated to the Artisan tech he only mentioned that I needed to clip the diodes.

As for the common busses I assumed that the common is the wire that is connected to the long silver plate that runs under all the contacts. Is that correct?

The instructions from Artisan is to connect the common (ground) from the manual to the ground slots on the end of each input board. I assumed that the long metal plate running under the contacts was the common/ground?

I will contact the Artisan tech again but his answers are not as detailed as yours. LOL

Thanks!

Edited: This is the response from Artisan Tech:

1. You need to connect directly to the contact itself, not to the diode. You should be clipping out all of the diodes. Make your connection from the input board directly to the contact leaf.

2. The second contact leaf should all be connected together to form a power bus and that then connects to the screw terminals at the end of the input board.

So, I’m gathering that I am wrong that the long metal plate that runs under all the contacts is the common.

I have asked Artisan how to link the common busses. But since the response time from this forum is quicker could you help me in how do I connect all the common busses together to one wire?

[kennyrayandersen]

What is your overall plan? I was able to use the keyboards out of my Rodgers, though I did have to rewire the cables at the keyboard end. I then used encoder boards that I bought with the output from those going into a sound card on the computer. I didn't end up using much from the organ internals. I'm hoping up the pedals now (working through that anyway). Are your keyboards a matrix output? (Digital) it are they analog? Is your goal now just to make a VPO?

[Innocentti]

Presumably you are not using the dedicated Artisan Allen Keyboard interface Part No: A1-17536. This allows you to connect to the original 17 wires that are used to scan a manual using the 11x6 matrix. Instructions to connect are in this document.

Unfortunately the document doesn't state whether the interface can co-exist with the original equipment ie: check if signals are being generated to drive the matrix control by the USCM card (whichever one is used in your organ).

It may be sufficient to just disconnect the power supply to the USCM card. If this doesn't work then just unplugging the cables from the card would leave the old 'system' intact.

Maybe Artisan will allow you to swap your board and supply the correct one :-P

nb: I haven't tried this and am using Artisan's documentation as reference.

[Innocentti]

1. see my reply to your other post.

2. Using the A1-17536 interfaces you can connect directly to the DIN 91512 (3x32 pin) connectors on your USCM card. These have pins onto which the wires from the keyboards / pedals are wire wrapped. The pins protrude above the wire wraps.

3. You can push the female end of a Dupont Jumper Cable onto the exposed end of the pin and clamp the male end into the connector on the A1-17536 interfaces. Unfortunately I don't have access to schematics for USCM cards, but I'm sure someone will provide the mapping.

No need to solder, cut any cables or trace where the wires are. If the interfaces don't work with the plugs connected to the USCM - unplug them!

[jbird604]

Now I'm learning some new things! So, Artisan actually has an encoder that "speaks Allen" and can be connected to the exiting wiring without disabling the Allen voices. That sounds like a great idea.

But as to the question of how to connect the power buss... Using the already-in-place wires that connect the leaf switches in groups of four, just solder wires in between those existing busses so you'll have one continuous buss for the "power buss" that Artisan mentions. Then remove the diodes and connect the note wires to the individual leaf switches at the point where the diodes were.

Once you do this though, you will have permanently disabled the organ from ever playing the native Allen voices. So be sure this is what you want to do before making this mod to the key contacts.

[myorgan]

Hello John,

Yes you are correct I think about needing to solder the wires. We have completed wiring the Great & Swell and powered up the midi controller to see if we are getting midi signals at all. We are getting midi signals but they play intermittently fast. When you hold down a key to play a sustained note the note plays rapidly fast but intermittently. When holding a wire firmly to the contact or the diode it still just plays repeatedly note. I took a screen shot of the midi track I recorded of a sustained note:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30603[/ATTACH]

John & Russ,

This sounds like the issue I was experiencing when I added MIDI to my ADC-4300. The keyboards were speaking intermittently, and it was simply because I had not grounded the connection.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the Forum!

Michael