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Looking for replacement tweeter in Allen HC-15 loudspeakers

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    Looking for replacement tweeter in Allen HC-15 loudspeakers

    Our church has seven HC-15 loudspeakers that were built in 1987 and in need of refurbishment. I am going to have the surrounds replaced on the mid-range drivers (Peerless 821385 / KO40MRF). I am also going to replace the capacitors in the crossover networks.

    I am trying to figure out what the Peerless model number is for the tweeter. The only identification marks on the tweeter is what I believe is an Allen part number: 292-0048.

    There was a different post where it was stated that the tweeter in an HC-12 was the Peerless 811582, and that this MIGHT also be used in the HC-15. I would appreciate any feedback as to the tweeter used in the HC-15.

    #2
    AFAIK, the HC-15 and the HC-12 used exactly the same dome tweeter.
    John
    ----------
    Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
    Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
    Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

    Comment


      #3
      Here are photos of HC-12 and HC-15 tweeters.

      The HC-12 has three fixing holes with Allen partno 292-0040 and is manufactured in USA, the HC-15 has four fixing holes and is a Peerless 811546 manufactured in Denmark - Allen partno 292-0048. Both are 8 ohm.

      Click image for larger version

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      Comment


        #4
        While it's true that more than one version of the Peerless 8-ohm dome tweeter has been used by Allen, I'm inclined to think that which one you'll find inside a given cabinet depends solely on the year it was built. I don't think there are any functional differences between the slightly different-looking versions of the tweeter, and they are surely interchangeable. In the current Allen parts catalog, the original tweeter is listed as NLA, with the same suggested replacement for all HC cabinets.

        Keep in mind that the HC-12 was built over a LONG period of time, from the late 70's up through just very recently (may in fact still be a few of them coming out of the factory for special projects), and the same is true for the HC-15, built from the mid-80's through the present. So Allen probably couldn't get the EXACT same tweeter from Peerless over that 40-year period, thus the presence of slightly different ones in cabinets from different eras, regardless of the model number.

        Anyway, my point is that the HC-12 was always equipped with an 8-ohm dome tweeter by Peerless, but the exact model used in a given cabinet may not be the same as in the next HC-12 that you see. So when replacing them, about the only thing you can do is locate whatever current iteration of the 8-ohm dome tweeter Peerless is selling, with the same form factor. Or if a suitable Peerless replacement doesn't exist, I'd be looking at some of the very similar-looking dome tweeters available through Parts Express and other on-line sellers of speaker components. As long as the form factor is about the same, and the dome diameter is about the same, that may be the best you can do.
        John
        ----------
        Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
        Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
        Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
        Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

        Comment


          #5
          Are you certain the tweeters need to be replaced? Likewise for the capacitors?

          Comment


          • Nutball
            Nutball commented
            Editing a comment
            I second that question. The caps on my HC15's still seem good, and I only replaced my tweeters because they had been damaged

          #6
          Our HC-15s were manufactured in 1987. The electrolyitic caps have very likely degraded, so it seems prudent to replace them. Similarly, Toodles had previously posted that there is a Canadian vendor who has overstock on the Peerless tweeter, so for $30 I can replace the 32 year old tweeters "just because". I am trying to restore/preserve the original sound of the organ.

          Comment


          • Eric Mack
            Eric Mack commented
            Editing a comment
            I would be interested to know the vendor where you purchased your tweeters and caps from

          #7
          OK, just found a datasheet for the Peerless 811546 and then compared it to the Peerless 811582. The frequency response of the -546 is significantly better than the -582. And there are mechanical differences in the form factors. Most significantly, the -546 has mounting holes on a 90mm diameter centerline, versus the -582 whose mounting holes are on a 71mm diameter centerline.

          Comment


            #8
            Eric Mack, I have not purchased any tweeters. There is a vendor in Canada who has overstock on the Peerless 811582, which Toodles believes fit the HC-12s. Here is the link:
            https://solen.ca/products/speakers/h...ters/80dt2608/

            The crossover in the HC-15 uses 3 each 27uF, 1 each 2.2uF, and 1 each 2.7uF. I bought the 2.2uF and 2.7uF caps at Parts Express. I bought Dayton Audio metallized polypropylene caps. For the 27uF caps, the poly caps were EXPENSIVE and bulky, so I chose to replace with non-polarized electrolytic. I could find only one manufacturer who made a non-polarized electrolytic cap with that value - Jantzen. (25uF and 28uF caps all over the place, but not the 27uF) None of the US distributors had stock for that particular value, so I ordered from:
            https://www.hificollective.co.uk/

            I also found a vendor on eBay who is selling surrounds for the mid-range that he claims are factory duplicates, including the concave half-roll. They sell surrounds both with, and without the Peerless ID molded into them. I have ordered a stack, but not have yet received them so I can't comment on their fit or quality. Here is the eBay listing:
            https://www.ebay.com/itm/Peerless-KO...4AAOSw3ShctsOK

            Comment


              #9
              The Peerless 811582 tweeter is not an exact replacement for the original tweeter in either the HC12 or HC14/15. This with respect to both electrical and mechanical characteristics. It is, however, a bargain priced tweeter of high quality--$4.17 Canadian (about $3.09 US). Except for its resonant frequency peak centered about 1075 Hz, its response is remarkably smooth out to about 10 kHz.

              Its use in the HC12 or HC14/15 would require a mounting adapter plate and crossover revision to deal with the resonant frequency peak. A series notch filter could handle the peak, but unless you are willing to wind your own coil for the notch filter, there is little point to using this tweeter in that design since the cost of an appropriate inductor offsets the low cost of the tweeter itself.

              Comment


                #10
                That's a great-looking tweeter for just a few bucks! If I had some HC cabinets I wanted to rebuild I'd sure snap them up and use them without batting an eye. I'd defy anyone to actually "hear" that little peak of about 1 decibel just below 10 kHz! Especially the way the tweeter is used in an Allen HC cabinet, crossing over over so very high up there. I'm only 67 and have better hearing than average for my age, but when I do a hearing test, my sensitivity drops off rapidly above 8 kHz, so I'm quite sure I wouldn't be bothered by that peak, and most people in church these days don't hear nearly as well as I do.

                If there is any actual audible effect from that tiny blip, it would be nothing but a sense of the speaker being slightly more "open" or "airy" than before, which many people might think was a plus! After all, organ speakers never have been particularly "flat" in response, compared to overpriced "audiophile" (audio-phool) boxes. They just need to have a broad range, reasonably uncolored tone, and high power handling.

                If it fits into the hole in the baffle, the only mod might be to drill new screw holes, and that isn't much work to save what, maybe $50 apiece on these tweeters over the cost of whatever replacement "kit" Allen offers, now that the original is NLA.

                Just my two cents worth. I'm just old cranky cheap-skate John!
                John
                ----------
                Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                Comment


                  #11
                  I can strongly recommend the surrounds from audiofriends - they are a perfect fit, I replaced the surrounds on 20 units. The glue they sell (recommend) is a water based PVA that allows movement of the surround before setting to ensure accurate alignment.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Second picture shows 2 HC-15 units and 4 HC-12 units.

                  Comment


                    #12
                    I want to know how you clean the surround with respect to the cone. I have found it a difficult chore
                    Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

                    Comment


                    • Innocentti
                      Innocentti commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I use various solvents to soften the remains of foam and adhesive - which ever works the best from isopropyl alcohol, automotive air intake cleaner, automotive brake cleaner, nail varnish remover (acetone) and baby wipes!.

                      When the foam and adhesive is soft I use a 2.5 cm nylon bristle rotary brush in a Dremmel type tool, ensuring that the bristle rotation sweeps from the centre of the cone outwards to prevent catching the edge of the cone.

                      This generates lots of sticky fine particles that need to be removed from the chassis, for which I use a small pipe attached to a vacuum cleaner and an aerosol air brush.

                    #13
                    I may have some Private message me
                    Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

                    Comment


                      #14
                      The HC14/15 crossover to the tweeter is at approximately 6050 Hz, so most any 1 inch dome tweeter with a sensitivity around 90 to 92 dB will suffice--look for one with a relatively smooth response and one that physically is a close fit.

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