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Allen mos 2 225

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  • Allen mos 2 225

    I have the opportunity to obtain a free Allen MOS 2 model 225 for my church. The speakers for the organ were apparently dry rotted so they were disposed of. I know nothing about electronics. What kind of speakers would i need? Do they have to be original allen speakers ? Will i need to redo any wiring or amps? My music minister will probably want to connect it through our churches sound system like our horrible Hammond is currently. Will that be possible? Thanks.

  • #2
    Allen HC-14 or HC-15 cabinets would work well and are readily available on the used market if you look around a bit. They are functionally identical; the 14s have a veneer finish while the 15s have a utility paint finish. The midrange speakers were made by Peerless and usually succumb to foam rot in older specimens. They can be repaired at reasonable cost by a speaker shop or fixed by a careful do-it-yourselfer. They should not be replaced with another driver since they are a high-quality speaker with a closed back (which is essential since they are mounted in the main cavity of the cabinet along with the woofer.

    Some of my buds here like the older HC-12 cabinets, which are sealed rather than ported. But their woofers have foam surrounds that do not last, and their efficiency is lower than that of the 14s and 15s.

    Never play an organ through the house sound system except to provide a remote feed to the nursery, pastor's office, etc.Even on an older instrument such as yours, controls are available to "voice" the organ to the room, and there is no point in even trying to set these controls if some mixer board jockey is going to be riding gain and fooling with the equalization. Matching a digital organ output to the surroundings makes a huge difference in the quality of sound, and it needs to be done and left alone. Too, the frequency response of PA speakers is rarely up to the challenge of reproducing organ sounds unless you have one killer sound system such as a touring band would use.

    I do this work for a part-time living and know a little about the subject. I suspect someone even more experienced like jbird604 will be "chiming" in with his own advice shortly, and it will be good advice.

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    • #3
      “horrible Hammond”?
      Can I have it?
      8)
      Tom in Tulsa

      Fooling with: 1969 E100, 1955 M3, 1963 M100, Leslie 720

      Comment


      • ntunnell
        ntunnell commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, please, come and steal it in the night. I will give you the address. Search the Hammond 820. I wouldn't even consider it a "real"hammond though.

    • #4
      Yes, that is a nice organ for a church. Grab it up. The original speaker cabinets missing is a shame, as they were likely HC cabinets. And as said above, foam rot can indeed be fixed. Look for Allen HC cabinets to use with it as they are the best for that instrument. If you find some that have bad foam, get them and redo the surrounds.

      Other speakers will work of course, but you really should use Organ speakers as they are built for the demands an organ makes on them.

      Everyone here will tell you that running the organ though a sound system in the church is a terrible idea. Me too ! For so many reasons.

      BTW, welcome to the forum. There are lots of people here who can assist you with advice about that Allen, when you need it. It may have some minor issues that will need to be sorted out. But usually nothing insurmountable - Allens are high quality and built to last.

      Regarding the "horrible Hammond" you have, what model is it ? You realize that the Allen is a true Church organ, and the sound will be very different than any Hammond ? Is your church music more traditional, or is the Hammond sound / style something that you like ?

      Please add your location to your profile. We don't need an address or anything that specific,but a state and area of it would be sufficient. You may well be nearby a member here who might have speakers available.
      Regards, Larry

      At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

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      • #5
        Thank you all for your assistance. I will search for some of those speakers. How many do I need for this organ ? I didn't see any speaker cables either, will there be an obvious place that they connect to? We did open the back of the organ to get to the power cord that was shoved in back three, but electronics are a foreign subject to me. I have updated my profile info. Thank you for that suggestion. I am in fort Wayne, Indiana. I am not a professional organist, but I took 5 1/2 years of pipe organ at the university of alabama (20yearsago now). I'm from Alabama and when I lived there I owned a johannus opus 10. I really loved that. I attended a church for about 5 years that had a newer Allen organ(at that time ). I think it was a c7 ?? My church here in fort Wayne is very traditional. I think they would all love the Allen over the hammond if they could experience the difference. The Hammond is a model 820, which to me is a hammond that was built to "lure"?? Pipe organ people to the "hammond side" because it has 32 note pedal (are they really AGO ? They just don't feel right to me) and it has really bad sounding "tabbed stops" to go along with a few drawbars. The "pipe organ stops" sound like really bad electrical static that has been tuned to pitch. I learned to play on my choice of 6 different pipe organs from a 2 rank up to a 70ish ? Rank Holtkamp . I never touched a hammond until I moved to Indiana. Now, I'm not criticizing hammond organs that are played the way Hammond organ are intended. I think they sound pretty cool when you have a good Hammond organist playing, but, that wouldn't be me. I do believe also that the hammond 820 is probably not the preferred choice of any Hammond enthusiast. I mean, it has like 3 drawbars and static pipe stops... anyway, I know this Allen won't be as nice as any of those alabama pipe organs or my johannus (though my johannus very well might not ever last 40 years like an Allen ) oh, I sold my johannus when I moved to Indiana because I had no place to keep it and I needed the money...I don't think I mentioned that. I'm pretty sure that the only way I will get a "classic AGO organ" is if I can find one for free, because replacing the hammond is not a high priority, it's just a dream of mine to have a "classic type church organ". (the allen 225 has a working programmable combination action!! That's s huge thing). And, regarding the wiring the organ through the church pa system, We live steam our serviced on YouTube and apparently running the organ though the pa system is the only way it will "sound balanced and good" for YouTube. If anyone has a suggestion for solving that , please let me know. I am poorer than the mice we may potentially be housing at our church, so, I'm kind of in the "beggars can't be choosers" category. I really miss being able to play the organ like you wouldn't believe, But I am eternally hopeful. Thank you for reading this horribly long post. If you know of any Allen technicians near fort Wayne, please let me know.
        Last edited by ntunnell; 07-20-2019, 07:59 AM.

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        • samibe
          samibe commented
          Editing a comment
          No, it's the only way the sound tech can be in complete control. Any decent sound technician should be able to capture the organ adequately with a mic (or two). Also, the signal into the amps is not line level on a MOS organ. So it will probably be easier to mic the organ than to do the modifications to get the organ to interface with the pa system.

        • myorgan
          myorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          Your sound guy doesn't know what he's talking about. To date, I have NEVER allowed a sound person to connect directly to the organ. In many cases, it'll overload the amplifiers or cause other issues. You do have a choice-refuse to play if (s)he puts the organ through the sound system. (S)He's not connecting directly to the preacher's voice box, the drum set, or any of the other instruments. (S)He's feeding you a line.

          Don't ever let the sound person talk you into putting the organ through the sound system. (S)He can get his sound from properly-placed microphones with an adequate frequency response range. The samples from an MOS-2 will sound ABSOLUTELY AWFUL when taken directly from the organ.

          There are 2 sets of HC-12 speakers presently for sale on *Bay, and I'm sure if you look carefully enough you might find an HC-14 or HC-15 as well. When you get the organ, take a picture of the amplifiers, and we can tell you how to hook them up.

          Samford?

          Michael

        • beel m
          beel m commented
          Editing a comment
          RE: "might not ever last 40 years like an Allen"... my personal Allen is a MOS-1 (earlier version of that MOS-2) and it gets played a LOT and it will be 50 years old in 2 years. A few repairs over the years. So that Allen 225 built +/- 1982, could well have lots of years left. Good luck!

      • #6
        The Allen 225 is two channel, so you just need two speakers. The two amps are probably inside the console and when you identify them the speaker hookup should be easy to locate.

        Depending on the size of your sanctuary, two Allen HC speakers per channel would sound great. With the proper antiphonal relays, the two amps can drive up to six speakers (4 main, 2 antiphonal).
        Last edited by Organkeys Jones; 07-20-2019, 10:25 AM.

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