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Speakers on Allen MOS-1 model 100 or 120

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    #16
    If I tried "C" would it be best, as illustrated, to have them shooting across each other to get bounce off of ceiling and sanctuary walls. Or go 90 degrees from that with each so they would be more or less aimed at the sanctuary wall on the same side as aimed counting on reflection there again as well as ceiling?

    Comment


    • myorgan
      myorgan commented
      Editing a comment
      I really couldn't say. Something about having the speakers crossing each other so closely doesn't feel like a good idea to me. Similarly, having the speakers' signals NOT cross each other until about 20'-30' into the sanctuary. That doesn't feel right to me either. At this point, I'll defer to others.

      Michael

      P.S. Reflecting off the ceiling can be a good thing as well.

    #17
    Thanks.. interesting thoughts. I think the distance between those two walls is about 6 feet. So if I used B, and aimed as shown, would they be far enough apart to get the "blend" effect with also canting a bit toward ceiling? Or if I used C, and aimed like A and B show, would that be a good option as well. Thanks again.

    Comment


      #18
      Well I'm back with new questions and old questions on speaker placement. Just for the sake of finding out how this might work, I borrowed a pair of 12" "monitor speakers from a friend who has a band. I disconnected the organ's internal speakers. I placed the monitors in the balcony on small tables. They are in approximately the "B" position and just peer over the balcony short wall. I tried aiming them a bit right and left as well as forward and canted about 30 and 45 degrees from level. The quality of the sound and volume was quite good. I was by myself with no body to play the organ. So to get some "sound", I place an object on top of the middle area keys.... obviously a terrible discord but at least sound. Then went down to the sanctuary level. I walked from back toward front. Having not changed the "expression" pedal, the sound through out was loud enough except for under the balcony (2-3 pews on each side). There was an odd sensation as I walked forward at about the middle.
      The sound was as if it were transitioning and got a "wavy" effect as if changing somehow between 2-3 effects. Kinda like when you are driving through a fog.

      I also tried the weird choice of facing both speakers directly toward the back of the balcony.... after doing a walk through, I was surprised to find the sound was more even without that strange effect I described above. The volume level actually seemed about the same throughout! The exception is what I had forgotten was part of this whole process. Folks seated directly beneath the balcony (2-3 rear pews) found the volume level much reduced... just not as loud as everywhere else. Enough so that I too would take issue and wonder if something could be done to bring equal sound level to those under the balcony.

      So now I'm faced with "is there any benefit to trying to replace the internal speakers with external speakers"? The thought had been external speakers facing out over the congregation would greatly improve the issue of poor sound level beneath the balcony. Even though the external speakers may not solve, at this point, the lower volume beneath the balcony, I'm hoping it will be appreciated by the organist not having the sound blasting at her legs and maybe do a better job of "spreading" the sound over the congregation in general.

      NOW any suggestions on what I have explained so far and mainly, is there anything you guys can suggest to solve this low volume beneath the balcony. From earlier posts I would not want to mess with the idea of piping the sound through the PA speakers. BTW in the attached "reminder" photos of the church viewed from front and sketch of speaker placements is to help when referring to area in question. The photo shows a wedge shaped speaker in the back corners on each side below the balcony.... these are the PA speakers and work well for their purpose of delivering the pastor's speaking etc. The other issue under the balcony is each side is really split with the main aisle separating the areas. Makes if tough to "blend" this area being backed into the rear dead spots.

      Sorry for the lengthy message but I like to fill in as much information that I think would be helpful. So.... I'm open to suggestions... the difficulty with the sound distribution rather surprises me especially the under balcony area. Thanks for your time everyone.

      P.S. Much as might not like the idea, I can see that placing the speakers at the front corners of the sanctuary facing the congregation, might give the best overall solution. Certainly it would get to those back rows under the balcony at near equal volume. The speakers would be placed fairly high up and angled across the congregation. This should give everyone nearly the same results, front to back, but with a bit too much at front? One downside, I don't care for some "objects" hanging there sticking out like a "sore thumb" in the sanctuary altar area. Especially since they would be black objects with a light background.... also some visibility of wiring a bit of a distraction.

      Comment


      • davidecasteel
        davidecasteel commented
        Editing a comment
        I think front placement of the external speakers would probably best achieve your desired results. I would like to see a picture of the front of the church. How far is the organ from the front walls? If more than 50-75 feet the sound delay could be a problem. Leaving the internal speakers connected could offset that, of course, but I wouldn't recommend it unless there would be a delay issue. Are the pews in the balcony for the choir? How deep is the balcony underneath? Your sketch only has a few dimensions on it, and the few there suggest that that narrower space would be 14' across (20' - (2 x 3')), not the 6' you mentioned.

        Barring placement of the speakers up front, the only solution I can think of for better sound under the balcony would be to provide speakers there, as well. I don't think you really want to do that.

        David

      #19
      Hi David,
      Yes my dimensions are vague... that narrower space is really about 6' …. there are two limited size pews and the usual 7-10 people sit there. Two of us operate a video recording system and the organist is the only other person regularly there. The very back part is rarely used as they can't see much of the front nor hear very well so disregard that area. The depth of the space under balcony is only about 5-6'... enough for about 2 pews but first one beyond (forward) also has reduced sound... so about 3 pews involved on each side of center. Of course, most people want to sit in rear so that under balcony area is always full of folks.

      I am leaning toward speakers up front. The distance from back row under balcony to the altar rails is roughly 50' so delay hopefully would not be an issue. The placement of the speakers in front would still leave about 6' to the first pew. I'm sure if I had a speaker up front and connected just that one for experiment, with a 45% horz coverage I could hear it fine from left to right extremes. Therefore the pair of speakers sound should be blended by the time it reaches folks even in the first (front)pews.

      You mentioned not disconnecting internal speakers and also adding speakers under balcony. That would seem unlikely since there is just one 8 ohm output for each of the two channels. Adding any speakers would screw up the impedance balance and risk of damage to the amps I would think. Thanks very much... will plug away... sorry don't have a photo handy looking toward front of church ready to upload right now.

      Comment


        #20
        While placing the speakers up front might well get some organ sound to the folks who choose to sit under the balcony, as an "organ purist" I would have to say that it creates its own set of problems. As David mentions, there is the delay. Every foot of distance from the speaker to the organist on the bench represents about one millisecond of delay (speed of sound is roughly 1000 feet per second). Any delay over about 20 milliseconds is noticeable and will soon become annoying to the organist, who is going to feel that the organ is lagging behind his or her fingers, a very frustrating feeling. If your room is over 40 feet deep, as it appears to be, that 40+ ms delay is going to make the organist want to quit.

        As David also mentioned, letting the console speakers remain active would help to alleviate that feeling of delay, but then THAT brings in yet another set of problems! To wit, the organist is now listening to, in effect, a "personal monitor" of the organ sound, no longer able to accurately judge what folks out in the pews are hearing. Most likely, the organist will tend now to play too softly, as the organ will seem quite loud with speakers playing right at the knees. You can of course rig up something to pad down the levels of the internal speakers, but this is getting way too complicated! No matter what you do, the "tone color" of the internal speakers is almost certainly not going to match the tone color of the new speakers, further confounding the organist.

        Some other thoughts...

        #1 -- As to the folks under the balcony, I have often found that people who don't really want to hear the organ very loudly like to sit under the balcony, because that is a well-known "safe place" where you won't hear much of it! There really isn't any good way to get them any sound when a church is clearly designed and built to have the organ in the balcony, short of cutting some holes into the balcony floor. Anything else will sound artificial and screechy, given how organ tone NEEDS to be "bounced around" and smoothed out before it gets to your ears.

        #2 -- Speakers up in the front corners will give the organ that undesirable "PA system" sound effect -- the tones are being blasted directly toward the ears of the listeners. That is what you really want to avoid.

        #3 -- Speakers in the front corners will be too far apart to produce the desired "blend" of the two channels. Listeners will clearly discern that the boomy bassy mellow sounds (the flute/pedal channel) are coming from one corner of the room and the screechy raspy reedy tones (the "main" or diapason/reed channel) are coming from the other corner. Again, not the desired effect!

        I note that you found the sound to be smooth and balanced when the speakers were facing toward the back wall, reflecting off that wall before going out into the room. That would seem to be what you want from the organ. And as a side benefit, the organist would be hearing almost exactly what everyone else is hearing without the need for the internal speakers.
        John
        ----------
        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

        Comment


        • davidecasteel
          davidecasteel commented
          Editing a comment
          When I suggested front placement, I did not mean to imply that they had to speak directly out to the congregation. That is why I asked for a picture of the front of the Sanctuary. I would be able to make a better suggestion if I could see the layout of the Chancel. Regarding sound delay, a 50' distance would result in about a 1/20 second delay. Many large churches have that much delay between the Organist and the pipes, anyway, and most Organists are able to deal with it. The pipes in the balcony of my church are more than 100' from the Organist and she doesn't seem to have any problems. Of course, she seldom ONLY plays the pipes up there--usually some of the Main Organ is also employed, and it's only 40-50 feet from her. The Fanface Trumpet (horizontal) is up in the balcony, though, and it pretty much takes over the room when employed.

          If there is a place suitable, placement of the 2 forward speakers could be a horizontal stack in one of the Chancel corners, facing diabonally across the space toward the far wall. Height should be such that the sound is not directly blocked by pews, etc. Angling the stack upward toward the ceiling might also provide better mixing and less of the "PA" feeling.

        • jbird604
          jbird604 commented
          Editing a comment
          David, obviously it is the case in many churches that the organist has to accept a certain amount of delay, and most will simply learn to cope with it, especially when the organ is a grand one and the organist is highly skilled. There are a few huge churches where the nave is close to 500 feet deep, with the organ console at the east end and one of the pipe divisions at the west end. A delay of fully 1/2 second! A friend of mine told me about attending a service in a church with that kind of arrangement, and how distressing it was to sit near the rear and experience the ridiculous amount of time smear between the front organ and the rear organ when they were being played together.

          I think the minor delays in typical churches are easier to accept when the organ is a real pipe organ. When pipes begin to speak, the sound may come from dozens of discrete sources, individual pipes, so the ear seems more forgiving of the delays involved. However, I find when playing a digital organ I am much less tolerant of delays. We frequently service digital setups in churches with the console at one end, and with an antiphonal division at the other end, perhaps 60 or so feet away is common. To me, it is very difficult to play such an organ with the main speakers silenced, having to hear what I am playing from that great a distance.

          A distance of fifty feet may represent only 1/20 of a second delay, but if you are playing rapid passages of music, or even a spirited hymn, that 1/20 of a second may represent a serious fraction of a beat in the tempo. While an organist can learn to cope with that situation, or worse, I think it is unwise to saddle the "typical" organist with such a challenge, given that most are doing the best they can with the cards they are dealt, and really don't need it to be made any harder for them!

        #21
        Great analysis.....only now if I do aim them toward the back it doesn't offer a solution to the main problem of the folks under the balcony not having it loud enough. The reason folks sit under the balcony, or back of the room, is not for the reduced volume, it is like in every other church or public meeting, they want to be less noticed and less likely to be called upon for something or another....shy.?? For anyone that does sit in the balcony back pews, they will likely feel like they are getting blasted..ugh, can't win.

        is there any other way to safely attach another set of speakers or "something" to place under the balcony to give increased volume to those folks?

        Another wild idea......so if the speakers would cause too much delay at the front, what about placing them half the distance and about the height of where the curved ceiling and side walls meet. Then aim them to the opposite wall and canted toward the curved ceiling. The sound won't be directed right at the ears, sound can blend first by bouncing and should be more equal to under balcony people and last not overwhelm anyone especially the organist. Thoughts?

        Comment


          #22
          That might work. Nothing lost by trying it, although experimenting with speaker placement often involves a lot of work -- running and hiding wires, raising heavy cabinets to great heights with either long ladders, scaffolding, or power lifts, drilling holes and putting in mounting brackets, etc. So, if you have the resources to do it, try some stuff and see what happens.

          It's simply not possible to solve every problem, as I've eventually learned after 45 years in this business. Even a million dollar pipe organ is going to have some characteristics that displease some folks and fail to satisfy all of a church's needs.

          Every building has its quirks. The very one time in my life when I had the privilege of designing a church sanctuary from the ground up -- 20 years ago when I was organist + a long-time respected member, deacon, and leader in a church -- I drew a plan that was as simple as possible. A rectangular room with a fairly high ceiling, not a single protuberance into the space, no light trays, no duct work chases, no overhanging balcony. A wide flat chancel with slightly angled walls at the sides, and a big open organ speaker chamber 12' off the floor in each of the two angled walls. This absolutely spartan structure was ideal for organ sound and for singing, preaching, and everything else because it was SIMPLE.

          You can't tear your church down and start over, nor should you. But you have quirks to work around, and you may not be able to satisfy everyone. Folks who want to hear the organ well and be involved in the congregational singing need to stop sitting under the balcony. Let those pews be for people with reasons to need to get out quickly, or for the folks who truly dislike organ and have no desire to join in the singing. (Maybe they'll change their minds and move up a few rows eventually!)

          Without being THERE and seeing and hearing and getting a feel for the acoustics, I really can't offer specific advice. What works in one situation might be disastrous in another. You'll have to decide on the "least offensive" solution, do it, and let the chips fall where they may.

          But please do NOT create a situation that will cause everlasting distress for the organist. Do NOT put the speakers where the organist is forced to "guess" what everybody else may be hearing, where he/she cannot experience the organ as everyone else does.

          That little Allen is of course dated and tiny, considered somewhat primitive by modern standards. And a newer organ might well work better in there. A small organ built on the principle of "stereo sampling" might be less demanding of careful speaker placement. There are little organs designed to have their little satellite speakers just hung in the four corners of the room and a subwoofer down on the floor somewhere -- the organ itself then creates the soundfield. But if a newer organ isn't an option, you will need to install this little old thing well in order to keep from making it sound awful and become a detriment to your worship.

          Good luck!
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

          Comment


            #23
            Scout, and everyone, I might be the guy from WI who you were thinking about when you mentioned re-foaming speakers. I have done a number of them, and it is quite time intensive, but the mechanics of the job is pretty straight forward. I'm thinking that if you get a pair of HC speakers that need this done, you could likely do the job yourself. Minnesota is a large state of course, and you do not specify a more exact location, so we may or may not be fairly close to each other. If we are close enough, I could possibly help you out, if needed.

            As far as your church speaker placement goes, I agree with all the good advice you have gotten from John, Michael, and the others. You really want Allen HC speakers for your situation there. Pretty much nothing works better ( or equal even ) to those, for what you are trying to accomplish. When you consider the organ that will be driving them, and where they need to go, the HC units are the best combination of size, capability, and quality for the job. Getting the speakers away from the console is one of the best things you can do for improving the organ's sound and volume. And your organists will love it too !

            They need to be placed in the balcony, facing pretty much straight out. The mixing the sound needs to do will happen in the air above the congregation. Against the back wall ( the first back wall, not the one behind the center hall / alcove ) would be best, and as high as possible. If I were suggesting placement for the church, I would say that the two PA speakers should be relocated, and the organ speakers put in those positions. If not there, then my second choice would be on the walls of the center hallway, but facing straight out, even with the wall, and as high as possible. I don't think that would be too much separation of the two channels, as they would not be facing anyone in particular. Mounting them to the wall would require a shelf, or better yet, french cleats.

            To address the problem of the organists not hearing the organ as well as they do now with internal speakers, I would suggest that the console placement be changed to be out on the main floor of the balcony. Still facing the same way, but down and out of the alcove.

            As John already mentioned, to address the problem of the folks in the three rows under the balcony not hearing the organ well, I would advise them to sit in the main portion of the nave ! Be part of the congregation, and so on, not hiding. In most churches around here those back rows are usually reserved for families with young children, so they can remove them in a prompt fashion if they start acting up, need a change, or whatever. Not hearing the organ well kinda goes with bringing young kids to church services. OTOH, if folks are just sitting there because they merely Like to, well that has an obvious solution. I could be wrong ( I hope I am actually ! ), but I sorta doubt that your entire nave is full for services, except for Easter and Christmas. So there should be plenty of room for folks to Not sit under the balcony.
            Regards, Larry

            At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

            Comment


              #24
              Larry, Thanks so much for your input. I do appreciate it. I'm still pondering what to do. BTW I'm wondering if we have established that each of the two amplifiers, main and flute, have an output impedance of 8 ohms. It's not on the chassis. There are several speakers in there and don't know what configuration they are connected in. Hopefully the amp is looking at 8 ohms which I hope someone can confirm... thanks guys... Will try and let you know how all this turns out!!!

              Comment


                #25
                Allen's amps are generally designed to handle either 8 ohm or 4 ohm loads. (They are transistor amps, and unlike tube amps, transistor amps can handle loads over a wide range of impedances, though designers typically specify something like "4 to 16 ohms" or such.) The built-in speaker systems in a console are nominally "8 ohms" -- which is to say the woofer voice coil is 8 ohms, and the rest of it doesn't really matter, since the crossover components mess with impedance anyway. The amps being easily able to drive a 4 ohm load, it doesn't hurt a bit to add an external 8 ohm speaker cabinet to each channel, which is what most situations call for.

                If you disconnect the internal speakers entirely, you are of course free to add TWO 8 ohm speaker cabinets to each amp's output. If you had the space, the money, and the inclination, you might do well to use two HC cabinets per channel, even on an organ as old as that MOS. Doubling the speakers generally results in a smoother and cleaner sound, along with better dispersion. You could even point one speaker forward and one speaker backward for each channel, effectively making the organ omni-directional, like pipes!
                John
                ----------
                *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                Comment


                  #26
                  Thanks so much, jaybird, you are a very knowledgeable guy... I respect your knowledge of electronics on top of your unbeatable knowledge and experience with organs.... makes me feel like a total beginner in everything, ha. I just read your post and so glad to hear that one could simply add another 8 ohm speaker on top of the existing ones … right on the barrier strip??
                  I did come across this schematic and sorry it is blurry and wrong orientation. Odd thing is that there are actually 3 RCA connectors, input 1,2 and expression whereas the diagram shows only the one input and a 4 ohm impedance... .
                  The numbers on the amp chassis are 95-1000-4. I googled that and came up with this schematic:Thanks again !

                  Comment


                    #27
                    I don't recognize that schematic, but the amps in your little Allen are most likely the old standby model T-50 units. Allen amps have been widely discussed on the forum, and there are threads that explain the various configurations. When the amps are INSIDE THE CONSOLE, as yours are, they do have three RCA jacks on EACH amplifier, of which there are two separate units. The three RCA inputs on each amp are necessary because both expression and muting functions take place at the input of the amplifier.

                    So, if you follow the RCA cables attached to the three RCA jacks, you'll find that one of them goes back to the DAC board (carrying the actual audio signal for that channel), a second one goes to the expression shoe (controls volume), and the third one goes to a relay which mutes the sound by grounding the audio during start-up and shut-down so the pops and bangs created by the computer system are not heard in the audio.

                    Note that you will have TWO of these amps in there. One of them could in fact be even smaller, and that would be the one that doesn't carry any bass frequencies, called the "Main" channel because it carries the diapasons and reeds. It can be smaller because it outputs less current.

                    But yes, you would remove the spade lugs that are currently on the "4 ohm" and "C" terminals of each amp, and that is where you connect your external speakers.
                    John
                    ----------
                    *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                    Comment


                      #28
                      Well I have to ask a question. First the two areas beneath the balcony seat at most 8-10 people on each side affected by this reduced volume.
                      i would love to be able to send just one channel (which?) to each side with a smaller fill in speaker for each side. Even better would be a way to combine the two channels into one if it would give fuller frequency range. Last would be a volume control on each of the two speakers to tailor the level to their preference.....could this be a simple pot control or would it need a impedance balancing control.....thanks very much.

                      Comment


                        #29
                        I get the feeling that you are trying to solve a "problem" in a very complicated way, that has a quite obvious solution that you just do not like for whatever reasons. That solution does not need restating really - does it ? If I were on the board of trustees ( or whatever authority is in charge of spending church funds ), I would not agree to investing in equipment to make the organ sound better to people who refuse to sit in the portion of the nave where it already sounds good.

                        Making the organ sound better with investing in a couple of HC cabinets, and placing them appropriately, is actually a separate issue. That is most certainly a wonderful idea ! Your congregation will sing better, your organist will hear the organ better, and it might even sound like you got a better instrument, so the investment for that sort of change is worthwhile.

                        We obviously have no idea of what your average attendance numbers are, but if it is not large enough to require it, No One should be sitting under the balcony. If a lot of the congregation is under the balcony, and not in the main portion of the nave, the organist simply cannot hear how they are singing. So the organist cannot adjust to how they are singing in any coherent manner. As in tempo, volume, Etc.

                        I play for a number of different churches in my area, and one congregation in particular does this very thing - they sit way back in the nave under the balcony overhang. This is a small attendance number congregation ( 25 average ), and the main area is usually empty. When I'm sitting at the console, I cannot even see most of them, and I certainly do not hear them much. No matter how well I play, that is a recipe for lousy singing ! As an organist I absolutely hate it. But they seem to like me, and they pay decently, and they have a neat little 100 year old Wangerin pipe organ, so I continue to play for them. If it were my church ( I'm just the hired musician ) I would get some of those red velvet ropes and block of several of the rear pews.

                        Looking at the photo of the under the balcony area in your church, it looks like you have two PA speakers already in the corners. A thing you could do is put a mic in the balcony to pick up the organ sound, and mix that in on the PA desk. Not a lot, but some. Of course that is not the same quality of sound as the organ speakers, but it would be simple to try anyhow.
                        Regards, Larry

                        At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

                        Comment


                          #30
                          Hi Larry... thanks for your observations and comments. Our congregation has about 40-50 people per Sunday. I respect your ideas and would like to go into some detail on your suggestions but some of it has already been covered so will only touch on 2-3 things. The organist has no problem hearing the organ... it is just a bit too loud for herself with internal speakers facing her legs and a dead end corner with barely enough room for herself and the organ bench. She has to squeeze through an 8" gap just to get to the organ. She would like the internals disconnected and use externals that will allow her to play at a level she can tolerate without internal speakers and base her volume on what folks will be relaying to her/us following the service.
                          Having a mic in the balcony to pick up the organ is a thought which has been dissed pretty well here already. Also there is always the concern that someone may be noisy or not remember everything being said is being picked up by the mic which they wanted to be private may be sent throughout the church..... on and on with other not so great results.

                          You will never "pry" some people out of their favorite seating area regardless of good reasons. This has been the case for generations so forget about suggesting these folks move forward. They see a red rope across the pews for no good reason (to them) or being told it is preferred they sit more forward for better hearing of the organ is going to turn some people off to the point of leaving the church permanently ! I know of folks that have left for lesser reasons. We can't afford to offend sensitive folks as we want them to continue coming for their spiritual strengthening and be brought to heaven by their faith in the Savior. I have dealt with the PA system for years and hear gripes on that all the time.... I can't hear anything or the sound gets too loud at times (we don't have someone at a mixer board to tweak things all the time). Can't get any volunteers to help out with the video recording, etc. so not going to get any help with these issues... just complaints when things "ain't right". If something goes wrong, all heads turn towards me as if I know instantly what to do or why did I let that happen....
                          Occasionally get a gripe about not hearing the pastor well. These are the same folks, in spite of suggesting otherwise, that sit as far from a speaker as possible and with their worst ear toward the speaker. Sorry.... got on my soap box there.

                          So what does the T50 output stage look like... similar to the schematic I found … mainly concerned that a temp short of speaker terminals won't blow some transistors.

                          Again, thanks to all.

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