Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...

[Guest]

Hello all,</p>

This is my first post. I've just taken a position at a church with an Allen Digital Organ - can't find the manual, but I believe it dates to the late 80's early 90's. It is a 2 manual, 1 pedal for Great/Swell and 1 Crescendo pedal. It has somewhat of a "tinny" sound whilst using some stops. It may just be my ear - I left a parish with a Rodgers Cambridge 735 which had a fairly nice sound IMHO...and previous to that I was on a Hook. Unfortunately, no one at my new parish can tell me the last time it was serviced, so I'm thinking that will be my first step. Also, (being MIDI capable) would a MIDI device improve the overall sound output? Or are there any other suggestions? Thank you all for your time.</p>

John </p>

[jbird604]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



John,</P>


Identifying the model will help us to know what you are dealing with and to suggest some improvements.More details about the installation would also be helpful.</P>


You can find the model number by lifting the top lid and looking for a metal plate on the back upper stretcher of the console. (Raise the lid, look at the inside back of the console, to the left.)</P>


If it is from the late 80's or early 90's it will be an ADC,MDS. or APmodel, with those letters preceding a number in the model box on the plate. If it is older than that, instead of a model number it may say "System XXX" and that would indicate a MOS-type organ. If it's newer than you think, the model plate may be on the back of the console and the model number will start with "R," "C,"or "Q" followed by some numbers.</P>


As has been discussed many times on this forum, the sound of the organ is determined more by the details of the installation and the acoustical setting than by the particular model or technology. So, regardless of what model you are dealing with, you may be able to get better performance from it if you can upgrade the audio portion and/or arrange the speakers more appropriately. OTOH, if the church has poor acoustics (too dry), there may not be much you can do.</P>


So post that model number and give some details about the speaker system and its placement, and about the acoustical setting.</P>


John</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



Hello,</p>

Thank you for your reply. The organ is an Allen Model MDS-5 (1991). Not quite sure what to tell you about it's installation. It has the console speakers, and external speakers at the rear of the church. The church is small (seating for 100), carpeted altar area and down the centre aisle, all else is wood. Thanks much.</p>

John</p>

 </p>

[jbird604]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



John,</P>


MDS-5 is a decent organ. Just two channels, so there isn't a lot of tinkering to do with the audio. The internal speakers are obviously not moveable. If it has the built-in digital reverb (which was an option at the time) you might be able to adjust it and get some benefit.</P>


The external speakers (which I assume are used as antiphonals) should be quite helpful to the sound, even in a small church such as you describe. Let's hope that they are aimed in such a way as not to blast anyone. If the ceiling is smooth and reflective, you might try making sure they are aimed somewhat upward and angled so that the sound bounces once before going out into the room. If they are simply hung on the wall that may not be possible.</P>


The voices are divided into two channels, with each organ division having some of its voices in each channel (speaker). For example, the great principal 8 will be in one channel and the octave 4 in the other. The great 8' flute will be with the octave 4, and the great 4' flute with the principal 8. Other choruses are similarly alternated. The celeste pair will be in opposite channels.</P>


There are "voicing" (technically these are "finishing") controls on the MDS tone generator board. Each channel has its own set of controls, which are marked G, M, T, B, W. These stand for Gain, Mid-range, Treble, Bass, and Wind. Use great caution in adjusting these because the organ can be thoroughly messed up if these are grossly mis-adjusted. However, once you determine which voices are in which channel (by turning the volume control knobs on the amplifier all the way down, one channel at a time) -- you can use a tiny jeweler's screwdriver to carefully adjust these pots. Make yourself a list or chart showing which voices are in which channel so you will know what you are changing when you adjust each channel.</P>


In fact, it's a good idea to turn each pot back and forth through its range a few times to clean up the carbon element. These pots tend to get noisy and even non-conductive over time andjust cleaning them by rotating them may improve the organ's sound.</P>


Feel free (if the church doesn't mind) to try moving each control around its range to see what happens. (You need to have someone at the keyboardturning on stops and holding notes while you do this.)Most likely it will sound most "normal" with the B, M, and T controls in the center of their ranges. Though you may want to use the Bass control on the channel that has the 16' pedal stops in it to regulate the bass, and you may want to vary the Treble control on the channel with mixtures in it to regulate the brilliance of the mixtures.</P>


Adjust the Wind to your liking. It is an interesting effect that gives the organ the wheeziness of a really bad old pipe organ if turned up too high, but a nice pipe-like breathiness when just right. And of course the Gain controls (in conjunction with the volume knob on the amplifier) allows you to set the overall loudness of each channel. Try to get the two parts of the celeste matched and also try to have the Principal 8 and the Octave 4 at about the same levels. This will help insure that the channels are about equally loud and that all the stops are relatively balanced.</P>


Hope this will help a little. Let us know how it turns out.</P>


John</P>
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[m&m's]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



Not sure about this, but isn't it possible to add two more amplifier channels and speakers to that organ? On my MDS 317, there are two cages for tone production, and each one has four outputs. Could it be possible that the cage on this organ also has four outputs? I haven't looked inside any of the smaller MDS organs in a while, so I don't remember.</P>


Also, most, if not all, MDS organs came with MIDI controls standard, Does this one not have MIDI controls for each manual?</P>

[Austin766]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...

My personal vote on improving the Allen's sound would be a match, but, I like pies way more than an Allen. (I had been playing a very classic Holtkamp on a monday evening, and went to play the Allen where I'd been teaching my self. I started playing and said to myself "What!? What is this thing, all the sound is coming out at my knees!")

In realityland I would follow John's suggestions, and if possible install another couple of speakers.

[Guest]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



Wow - what an amazing reply - thank you so much for all that info! My first step before anything will get a tech in there to tune/check it out. Mypredecessor had a keyboard hooked up to the inside of the instrument and left the wire connected, so when I initially turned it on, there was a loud "hum" being projected from it - I opened it up and disconnected the wire and the sound left. But in her tenure of 5 years, no one ever looked at the Allen.</p>

I also found a small MIDI box under the left hand side of the Great keyboard. I would love to experiment with it - if not for anything but curiosity's sake, but the organ manual is nowhere to be found. Any suggestions on using the Allen MIDI - or a website that outlines the hows, whats, and whys of MIDI use? I have a keyboard as well as a MacBook Pro. Any additional info will be most appreciated. Thank you once again for your excellent ideas!!!</p>

 JOHN </p>

[Guest]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...

Hello! I believe there are MIDI to Swell and MIDI to Great on it.

[jbird604]

Re: Any advice on improving an Allen's sound...



John,</P>


As to Mike's question about additional channels, the MDS-5 uses a small version of the MDS generator with only 2 output channels, so no further breakdown of the voices is possible. Additional amps and speakers are always a good thing, of course, but as small as the church is you probably have enough power with the standard amps and the speakers you described. (Not that any organist is EVER satisfied -- we always want MORE!)</P>


The little box you found under the left end could be the console controller. Don't recall if this model has the controller standard or not. If so, it's just a display with some buttons for accessing various setup parameters, going through the memory levels, etc.</P>


Or, it could be an MDS Expander box, which is a MIDI sound generator with some nice sounds in it. If you read the labeling on the box, it will tell you which unit you are dealing with. If it's an Expander, you will need the user's guide to really understand it and get the best use of it. PM me about that, and I can send you a copy in PDF format.</P>


Good idea about getting a qualified tech to look at the organ. It's past due for a general checkup, and if the tech is knowledgeable and willing to spend some time with you, some voicing and speaker issues could be addressed as well.</P>


John</P>