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  • Allen Custom Analog 3D6 Restoration

    Posts regarding the restoration of this Allen Custom Analog 3D6 were moved from this thread: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-is#post827709

    Michael

    P.S. For some strange reason, when posts are moved to a new thread (or copied), comments no longer appear under the posts, to which they referred. They are now individual posts.
    Last edited by myorgan; 10-07-2023, 05:50 AM. Reason: Clarify comments not appearing as comments.
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

  • #2
    Photos finally uploaded.
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 5 photos.
    1965 Allen 3D6 Custom
    Unkown Kawai Reed organ

    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOk...ogYLVZ2IPMtUhg

    Comment


    • adamsih300u
      adamsih300u commented
      Editing a comment
      I had a little brainy moment this morning thinking about the umbilical cable. In the console, each connection point is labeled - the notes connections at octave intervals, and of course the stops are labeled. The cabinets have a connection panel as well, which is similarly labeled. So, with a toner, I should be able to fairly quickly find and label the majority of the wiring in the umbilical(s) (there is a thick one for the main cabinet and a less this one for the choir cabinet). It’d be faster with two people, but it takes me back to my hospital days toning out analog phone lines, which was never dull and usually turned out okay. 😁

    • michaelhoddy
      michaelhoddy commented
      Editing a comment
      I was going to comment earlier with this- a toner would be indispensable for this project. Certainly, you'll have to deal with some inductance false positives, but it should allow you to make pretty short work of sussing out the lines, especially with two people and a whole bunch of labels.

    • adamsih300u
      adamsih300u commented
      Editing a comment
      Picked a toner up this morning while returning the furniture dollies we didn’t need…that plus a lot of small shrink tubing! I’m going to solder the joints for now, to get it up and running to assess what else it needs. Down the road I may re-do with some kind of multi conductor plugs to make things easier for the next time (heaven forbid!) it has to be moved.

  • #3
    So I have seen the organ, and have the seat and pedalboard now (they wanted to make sure I'd come back for the rest!). It's a model 3D6; the second rack houses what looks like four additional tone generators. The building was built in 1964(per the foundation stone), so I would assume the organ is original to the building. The speakers are in there, however the church isn't anxious to dive into the upper walls to remove them, so I didn't press the issue.

    I am planning to return Saturday with some friends and trailers to remove the two racks and the console; console doesn't seem terribly heavy, probably because most of the heavy electronics are in the racks. The church team is actually going to bring the racks downstairs for us, and they're on wheels, so it really should be a straightforward move, aside from the taller rack is taller than 6'. I plan to tie down to remove anything 'loose' so things to get destroyed. Pictures attached, showing the stoplist, will post the racks subsequently.
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 3 photos.
    1965 Allen 3D6 Custom
    Unkown Kawai Reed organ

    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOk...ogYLVZ2IPMtUhg

    Comment


    • adamsih300u
      adamsih300u commented
      Editing a comment
      I had a little brainy moment this morning thinking about the umbilical cable. In the console, each connection point is labeled - the notes connections at octave intervals, and of course the stops are labeled. The cabinets have a connection panel as well, which is similarly labeled. So, with a toner, I should be able to fairly quickly find and label the majority of the wiring in the umbilical(s) (there is a thick one for the main cabinet and a less this one for the choir cabinet). It’d be faster with two people, but it takes me back to my hospital days toning out analog phone lines, which was never dull and usually turned out okay. 😁

    • michaelhoddy
      michaelhoddy commented
      Editing a comment
      I was going to comment earlier with this- a toner would be indispensable for this project. Certainly, you'll have to deal with some inductance false positives, but it should allow you to make pretty short work of sussing out the lines, especially with two people and a whole bunch of labels.

    • adamsih300u
      adamsih300u commented
      Editing a comment
      Picked a toner up this morning while returning the furniture dollies we didn’t need…that plus a lot of small shrink tubing! I’m going to solder the joints for now, to get it up and running to assess what else it needs. Down the road I may re-do with some kind of multi conductor plugs to make things easier for the next time (heaven forbid!) it has to be moved.

  • #4
    Thanks everyone for your suggestions and support so far. Glad to hear of Silken Path 's direct experience with this class of equipment. It's a busy week for me with other things, but so far I have ensured no shorts in the cut umbilicals and powered on the console. It powers up, pistons work, lights, etc. I am thinking my best course of action is to get the Choir ranks up and running first; they have a smaller umbilical. So far I have determined the following colors in that cable:
    Brown: Stops
    Blue: C6 - C7
    Green: C5 - C6
    Red: C4 - C5
    Orange: C3 - C4
    White: C2 - C3
    Yellow: C1 - C2
    Black: Not fully understood

    I have labeled all of the brown wires on the console end. I actually found it easier to use my continuity tester than a toning probe. michaelhoddy was right in that you do get a lot of false positives, and it's quite possible the quality of the one I bought is suspect. Anyways, I got those labeled. I also picked a single orange note wire to identify (C# 2). My goal is to get one stop to play to validate the foundational work and then keep moving. I don't want to solder everything and find I've made an error somewhere! On the rack side, I have bypassed the Main/Antiphonal relays. The tone generator stack for non-reeds (Flues have a shared output, Reeds have their own in this configuration) goes into the S-100 amplifier. I have connected that and the tone generator power supply to the power conditioner for now. I know there's a relay-controlled electric supply in the rack, but until the right wires are connected to engage it, it won't work. If I crank the S-100 I get a mild hiss from my speaker, and I have measured 12vDC from the tone generator power supply. So that appears to be functional.

    I have connected the Choir C# 2 from the console to the C# 2 wire in the rack, along with the brown wire for one of the Choir stops (Spillflote 2'). It occurs to me, however, that these signals much have a ground to complete the circuit. On the rack, I've tested to ensure all the commons are tied together. On the console, I've tested some of the black wires in the umbilical against the chassis ground...but I'm scratching my head now as to where it might go on the rack. Since the wiring inside the racks hasn't been touched (to my knowledge), it ought to be something I can piece together.

    Any thoughts or insight on what to try are appreciated. I have identified a pair of black wires in the umbilical that give me +14VDC... if that helps at all.
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 2 photos.
    1965 Allen 3D6 Custom
    Unkown Kawai Reed organ

    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOk...ogYLVZ2IPMtUhg

    Comment


    • #5
      Glad to hear the pistons work. That function, using the setter boards in the two drawers, is about the only function that is totally contained in the console.

      Was that Choir box still connected to a generator rack?

      Comment


      • #6
        I found the reply from Allen Organ's service manager regarding the construction of these Custom instruments. Here is what he said:

        "The custom analog instruments were built similar to the way pipe organs were built in that they were assembled complete at the factory for testing and then all wiring is disconnected from the console and placed on transfer strips for re-connection when the instrument is installed. This was done wire for wire. These instruments contains hundreds of wires for keying and stop control of which there are no detailed wiring diagrams or schematics available. These instruments are not much different in the way they are wired from our standard models of the time. However, on a much bigger scale with remote relays for keying and stop control. If you can understand the basic principles our of analog generators then you should be able to do what you suggest. We have a book available for purchase which contains vast information on our analog tone generation system which should be helpful. The book is 034-1008, Analog Service Training Manual. Cost of the book is $25.00. The book may be purchased through our Parts Department by contacting Mr. Gary Hahn (Parts Manager) at 610-966-2203. Payment is by valid Visa or MasterCard.​"

        This book is what I was referencing earlier. I bought a copy and found it very enlightening--indispensable, in fact. I hope they still offer it for sale. I believe it is a print-on-demand format now, so they ought to be able to get you one.

        Comment


        • #7
          don60, Yup, that is the book I was referring to earlier. Along with that book came some other related ones, and amongst those was one titled Analog Pre-Training Primer ( that title is close, if not quite exact ). That book delved into more of the theory in all the Allens of that era.

          I got those back in the early to mid 80s just after I acquired my own first Allen - a TC-4. I'm pretty sure the whole box of analog stuff cost me 55.00 direct from Allen back then. My TC-4 was very reliable, so I never had a need to read all the manuals beyond in a cursory sort of way. When I sold that organ, I ( who suffers from Tech Lit Acquisition Syndrome along with OAS ), of course kept the manuals. Because, ya just never know when they might come in handy.

          When Silken Path got his 2 ( or 3 ? ) TC-4 organs and was restoring them, we arranged for him to borrow them for a while. During the time he had them, there was mention made of perhaps scanning and digitizing them, but I do not recall if he ever did that or not.

          So if Allen will sell you the book(s) for 25.00, you should certainly get them.​
          Regards, Larry

          At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

          Comment


          • #8
            "I believe it is a print-on-demand format now, "

            Maybe they send a PDF these days?
            -------

            Hammond M-102 #21000.
            Leslie 147 #F7453.
            Hammond S-6 #72421

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by don60 View Post
              then all wiring is disconnected from the console and placed on transfer strips for re-connection when the instrument is installed.
              Given the lack of a color coding scheme (like major and minor used in telephony) I was wondering how field technicians knew how to terminate those cables.
              -------

              Hammond M-102 #21000.
              Leslie 147 #F7453.
              Hammond S-6 #72421

              Comment


              • #10
                Yes; it's interesting - the wire termination strips are on one side of the rack, and then the wires pass through to the tone generators on the opposite side of the rack. Wiring internal to each rack looks generally untouched, so I 'trust' it. The stop activation magnets are in the wiring side of each rack as well, so I would expect to hear or see one activate once I get the control circuit completed.
                1965 Allen 3D6 Custom
                Unkown Kawai Reed organ

                My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOk...ogYLVZ2IPMtUhg

                Comment


                • #11
                  The analog training manual can also be had in a used Analog Service Manual. It will contain
                  Analog Pre-training Primer
                  Analog Service Training Manual
                  Individual organ models

                  And mine has some service bulletins, some of which I got from Larrytow I also got a pocket guide from him that turned out to be very handy.

                  I paid $100 for the service manual on eBay. I have seen a couple more since then - search for "allen organ" and then reverse the listing from low to high.

                  -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic -- 1899 Kimball, Rodgers W5000C, Conn 643, Hammond M3, L-102 - "Let no man belong to another who can belong to himself." (Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest​ -) ​Paracelsus

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Progress: a common ground is needed between rack and console. I assumed this was so, but couldn't find an obvious point in the umbilical for it, so I got a spare wire and tied the grounds together myself. Now activing my one connected Choir tab activates the relay in the rack for that rank. This was supported by observing a insulated set of ground strapping coming out of the console, but it was cut....and I didn't have obvious 'other end' cables coming from the racks.

                    My guess is they didn't see the use of that and discarded most of it. As it stands, I could imagine the ground strapping going to the larger rack, and then the smaller rack pig-tailing off of it. Either way, I'll probably install fresh ground strap cable to the racks when things are farther along.
                    1965 Allen 3D6 Custom
                    Unkown Kawai Reed organ

                    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOk...ogYLVZ2IPMtUhg

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      When I did a pedalboard swap-out job some years ago, I installed a nice Allen AGO pedalboard on a 100 year old pipe organ. Both the organ and pedalboard cables had wires that were all the same color, and I had to sort out which was what, just like you are doing. What I found to be easier to keep track of things was a wood strip with lots of holes in it. That way when you know the function of each wire, you stick it though a hole, and then you can label the strip. That is much easier than tape labels on such small diameter wires. You can make the holes in groups of twelve for octaves as well. Once you have the wires identified and sticking though the strip nicely on both sides of the cut, you can splice them real quickly, in whatever way you want to use. I made up a junction block / board to do the splicing because I did not want to fool with in-line splices on such small gauge wires.

                      Now that pedalboard job was pretty minor as far as how many wires needed to be traced compared to yours, but the same idea might help you keep track of everything better.
                      Attached Files
                      Regards, Larry

                      At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Would a cereal box work as well? Perhaps tape the ends on the opposite side of the cardboard to keep them until the junction needs to be made permanently.

                        Michael
                        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          I'm thinking a hunk or two of a cereal box would work as well. You can still get cereal in boxes ? My Froot Loops come in big bags these days.

                          I think I made up the sorting strips from wood so they could be more than a single project tool. I still have them stashed away actually. And of course, never needed them again. The entire idea was taken from how the pipe organ builders do things.
                          Regards, Larry

                          At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

                          Comment

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