Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



    I picked up a Hammond T-233 from a church that was throwing it out. This one is different from most Hammond find stories, because this one had been sitting in the church's rec-room for the better part of 15 years, unused. So I got it for free, it was delivered for free but, as I soon found out, there is no such thing as a free Dual-Manual Draw-bar church organ.</p>

    So far, the thing's in a nice state. It was loved during its service, and when it outlived its usefulness it was put in a safe area where it wouldn't be harmed, and it plays like a dream. Soon enough, its age started to show, and when I was done trying my hand at "Wring That Neck", the grinding began. It hasn't been oiled in probably as long as it's been in storage, but that grinding is enough to make your flesh crawl. After I obtain oil (hopefully the Hammond-Suzuki corporate HQ has a store; I live a little over a mile away from it) it will sound a lot friendlier. </p>

    The only real serious damage I could find is that the bass pedals don't work. They'll produce the cymbal brush effect when I throw the switch for it, but aside from that, I get no sound. I've pretty much ruled out environmental damage, but there's still the possibilities of stupid kids slamming the pedals, or damage while in transit. Personally, I put my money on the latter scenario, as NONE of the pedals work.</p>

    I don't have a camera right now, but i'll post pics when I get it back.</p>

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    </p>

  • #2
    Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



    G'day!</P>


    I'm a T addict myself, and I've done a whole lot of modding to make it sound bigger and whatnot.</P>


    During my mods I lost the pedals a couple of times, the less-likely cause I'll have towrack my brain for.... but the very most, top, highly extreme liklihood is that the wire has frayed from the back of the drawbar!</P>


    Get the top off theT and remove the metal casing covering the pcbs behind the tabs.</P>


    You might be able to peer in and see the drawbar in question, move it in and out to identify it. Take stacks of photos while you're at it, because wires can come offunexpectedly while you're inside, and it's handy toremember where they need to be put back! It doesn't happen often,but it does happen!</P>


    If youneed a service manual, I'll dig out the link for it.</P>


    If you can't get in there to solder, the Tab assembly is just bolted left and right and can be moved back, which will give you easy access.</P>


    I'm about to make my wife a cuppa, so I'll throw you some more detail when you get back to us!</P>


    Cheers!</P>


    -Brendon</P>


    </P>
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



      Oh, a manual would be lovely.</p>

      Earlier today when I went out to buy smokes, I remembered that there's a little mom and pop music store in town called Park Avenue Music. The owner is a really cool guy, and whenever I'm up there we hang out for a little bit. I remember him talking about an old B-3 that he was restoring, but it was on halt because it needs a complete retubing, and business just ain't that good. Long story short, I traded him a cig for a half bottle of clean, workable generator oil. Not one of those little bottles you get from ToneWheel General, but the big metal canister with the red label on it.
      </p>

      What worries me, though, is even though this is good, clear, non-deteriorated oil, and I've been careful not to over-oil it, the grinding just keeps at it. I oiled the two little funnels on the Tone Wheels (This is pretty cool - I have a syringe-type thing that was left over from when my grandmother was sick, and it makes a perfect applicator and extractor if I overfill it.) but I can't help but think that I'm missing something. Are there any more places I should lube up?</p>

      Also, about the soldering, I'm going to wait until something breaks until I break out Mr. Melty Gun. That way, if it's messed up, I'll have an excuse to dismantle it. That frayed wire scenario sounds pretty likely, too. I'll give it a once-over tonight, but if it turns out that the pedals are too damaged to repair without really involved work, hey, never really used the pedals anyway.
      </p>

      Thanks for the quick reply, tomorrow morning I'll start snapping pics.</p>

      </p>


      </p>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



        Hi, another T fan here!</p>

        Patience, my friend, patience!</p>

        First I'm assuming that this is proper Hammond organ oil and not just something that a B3 'expert' has used instead! Second, if this organ hasn't been oiled in a really long time, it can take maybe weeks for the oil to seep along the cotton wicks to the tonewheels.</p>

        Grinding sounds are most likely caused by the TWG, but there is the leslie to consider. Does the grinding noise change when you switch it from slow to fast? Might need a lube if so. </p>

        The TWG motor is another possibility for a little oiling.</p>

        That missing pedal sound could be a wire of the drawbar or a dirty drawbar at the simplest. Brendon's advice is sound on this.</p>

        Anyway, there's nothing in a T that's rocket science, and everything in it can be fixed - usually pretty simply. Then you can embark - if you're so inclined - on some of the mods that will either just perk it up a little, like mine, or change it into a mini-B3, a bit like Brendon's. I happen to like the crisp sound that the T has, it's unique in the Hammond family.</p>

        Andy
        </p>
        It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

        New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

        Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
        Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
        Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
        Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



          http://www.captain-foldback.com/Hamm...ice_manual.zip</P>


          http://www.captain-foldback.com/Hamm...ics/t100series</P>


          Is the best I can do for the T-300, I think most of the manual is there. I've got a full T500 manual, but it's different in some ways.</P>


          As for the grinding, it can take a couple of days or even more for the oil to get down the threads to the necessary spots. If it hasn't gone away then, let us know, there are a couple of tricks you'll need to do, but I can't go into it right at this moment cos I'm a bit pressed for time. Onr thing you can do is fill a syringe with oil and do the tonewheels directly from underneath.</P>


          Definitely oil in the capped tubes on either side of the motor too.Later you'll need to look at the motors and axle in the leslie as well.</P>


          I'll be back tomorrow with more!</P>


          Cheers</P>


          -Brendon</P>
          -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
          -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
          -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
          -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
          -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



            " Capped tubes" sounds misleading... um, there are two bits stiching up from the motor which take the oil. you'll see them!</P>
            <P mce_keep="true"></P>
            -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
            -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
            -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
            -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
            -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.

              [quote user="andyg"]


              Hi, another T fan here!</P>


              Patience, my friend, patience!</P>


              First I'm assuming that this is proper Hammond organ oil and not just something that a B3 'expert' has used instead! Second, if this organ hasn't been oiled in a really long time, it can take maybe weeks for the oil to seep along the cotton wicks to the tonewheels.</P>


              Grinding sounds are most likely caused by the TWG, but there is the leslie to consider. Does the grinding noise change when you switch it from slow to fast? Might need a lube if so. </P>


              The TWG motor is another possibility for a little oiling.</P>


              That missing pedal sound could be a wire of the drawbar or a dirty drawbar at the simplest. Brendon's advice is sound on this.</P>


              Anyway, there's nothing in a T that's rocket science, and everything in it can be fixed - usually pretty simply. Then you can embark - if you're so inclined - on some of the mods that will either just perk it up a little, like mine, or change it into a mini-B3, a bit like Brendon's. I happen to like the crisp sound that the T has, it's unique in the Hammond family.</P>


              Andy
              </P>


              [/quote]</P>
              <P mce_keep="true"></P>


              Oh! G'day there Andy!</P>


              I missed you there.</P>


              You're right about the T's natural sound, it's so pure. It's very church-like and clean, yet with the solidpresence of tonewheels. </P>


              I played alater LSI electronic Hammond from Nihon Japan, and it wasn't until then I realised how special the T's sound was. The Nihon Hammond (a cougar)was just awful in comparison. So soft and edgeless and woolly, wishy washy compared to the T's tonewheels.</P>


              And yet... IHAVE modified it! The sound it now has is so very very very nice! I'll put up a piece of music for you soon, to show how it sounds. It's still fairly pure when the right drawbars are out....</P>


              The tune I recorded today for Forum member Brian Farndurk. I'll wait for his comments before I post it up for everyone.</P>


              I'll probably hear from him tomorrow, so you can hear the T500 then....</P>


              Cheers!</P>


              -Brendon</P>
              -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
              -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
              -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
              -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
              -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                Wow, this topic has really started to expand!</p>

                I've ruled out it being the Leslie's motor, because sometimes the organ will start up smooth as silk, and start grinding 4 minutes later. Other times it starts as soon as its powered on. Very rarely, though, it will start up, perfectly fine, and I can rock out for about an hour and a half before the hideous grind kicks in. This is how I've ruled out the Leslie, because when I'm having an endless jam, I flip the Leslie constantly, really putting it through its paces.</p>

                Also not the leslie because, (and I admit it was stupid but alcohol was involved) when the machine fired up and something was grinding, I hit the metal chassis where all the tone wheels are with a rubber mallet. One hit, and ANOTHER tone wheel would start screeching. Immediate power-down, unplug, tremble in fear knowing there's a chance that I just ENDED this Hammond.
                </p>

                I'll definitely take a look at the oil caps on the motor, thanks.
                </p>

                Just a little while ago, I had a brilliant idea that would get me a gritty Jon Lord-style organ sound while not modifying the T-233. It's kinda cheating, but I love the way it sounds.</p>

                I have an old Yamaha sample-based keyboard (don't know the exact model, but by old I mean it has a cartridge slot.) that has a decent Mellow Draw-Bar sound on it. Ok, fair enough, but it also has a built-in effects processor, with decent distortion. My reasoning goes like this - My Hammond has a 1/4" male jack hanging out the back, and by doing random Google searches I discovered that it's an audio in. Well, what a coincidence, my Yamaha has a 1/4" female output. As long as it's processed through the Leslie, fun things will happen. Since someone else is posting sound clips, I might as well, too, when my Hammy is feeling better.
                </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                  Evening squire!</P>


                  Last night, in a flash, a revelation... I suddenly realised what your screcching tonewheel sound VERY WELL MIGHT BE.</P>


                  You most very likely have some of the magnets pushed in and some of the tonewheels are grinding on them!!!!!!!! !!!!!!</P>


                  When they're not making the screeching grind it's possibly because they're not moving.</P>


                  SO.</P>


                  To test it:</P>


                  Keep the T switched off, and get under the Tone Generator with a torch. </P>


                  You should be able to move the wheels by hand, normally. A stuck wheel will be stuck... or difficult to move and may even grate.</P>


                  Of course, there's the drive wheels in there as well, cogs which probably won't move. They're nasty to touch if the organ's on.</P>


                  Tell me how you get on, and we'll discuss the tools needed for shifting the magnets back to the correct position!</P>


                  Cheers old bean!</P>
                  <P mce_keep="true"></P>


                  -Brendoooon</P>
                  -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                  -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                  -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                  -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                  -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                    Brian gave me permission to post up the jam I dedicated to him and his dog binkle, who he found years ago as an abandonedpup in an open grave!</P>


                    Here 'tis:</P>


                    http://cid-0d7741cc63af1adc.skydrive...e%20graves.mp3</P>


                    It's a modifed T-500 and DIY leslie. I recorded it thru my laptop's internal mic! Added a few layers of voice and guitar just to spice it up a bit.</P>


                    Cheers!</P>


                    -Brendon</P>
                    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                      Wow, Brendon, that's a MEAN sounding set of keys right there. You sure that isn't a B-3 in the guise of a T-500? Wow, man, that dog must have been amazing!</p>

                      Anyways, that grinding gear could be it, does have something to do with these little button-looking things on the casing for the tone wheels? Because several of those are pushed in, and they correspond with the tone wheels when I hear the grinding and put my hand on the casing.</p>

                      This thing is falling apart; today the Leslie started humming when it was on slow, with an audible pop when it's changing speed, although that could be the Yamaha on top of the Hammond.</p>

                      I was oiling it today and I spilled some on the funnel over the Leslie. My little syringe thing broke so I'm now using (get this, you're gonna love it) half of a turkey baster and a Pyrex measuring cup. But for what i have, I didn't do a bad job.</p>

                      If you're curious, the serial number is somewhere in the mid 5000's. It's probably that low because I live a town away from the old Hammond company in Chicago. I just think that's neat. </p>

                      Soon, if I can't get it to work, I'm going to take it to a Hammond tech. This is just too much for me to fix. I know how to make a Commodore 64 play music properly, because it's very low-maitenance. This beast... Yeah, time to call a tech soon.</p>

                      Thanks for your help, I'll keep you updated on it's current situation.
                      </p>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                        Nah, you don't need a tech!</p>

                        I'm just a professional cartoonist slash muso, and with the right instructions I've learned a stack about my T. I've even done one mod never before done on a Hammond as far as I know, and it's a real goodie! Too early to introduce you to that though, let's get this beast running smooth-like first!</p>

                        The little button things are the end of the magnet poles which read the magnetic field of the spinning discs.</p>

                        They are normally bolted at different positions in or out, in order to get the correct balance of tones, otherwise certain notes will sound stronger or weaker than their neighbours.</p>

                        However, if you're sure the magnets that are pushed in are the ones grating on the wheels (as I said, see if the wheels will turn by hand when the organ is off.) then you need to loosen the 4mm hex nuts holding the magnets in place and ease them out till they're roughly the same distance out as the next one across in the same row. We'll get into the science of repositioning them later, for now it's better to get the TG happy!</p>

                        Be kind to those hex nuts though, they're irreplaceable. I had to  buy a little socket gadget that would get me into the tight corner, and then file bits off it til it fit in the gap.  If you're very careful you could try a pair of pliers.</p>

                         
                        </p>

                        The pop on the leslie changing speeds is not a problem. There are two things can cause it, there may be a ground wire come off somewhere in the organ which needs to be reattached, or the capacitor which gulps up the spark whenever you switch the leslie may have come adrift, like it did on mine. I'll show you a pic soon. </p>

                        Did you get the service manual? We could compare page numbers and get this thing fixed.</p>

                         </p>

                         </p>
                        -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                        -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                        -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                        -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                        -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.



                          I never did find the service manual, but I'm still looking.</p>

                          Thanks for clearing that up about the button things, those will definitely need adjusting.</p>

                          I was wrong about the condition of this organ, it's in a sorry state. But, it's a real fixer-upper, and the price was right. Also a great learning experience. I mean, how often is it that you find the holy grail of keyboard instruments that is in relatively good condition, and for free?</p>

                          I just got to thinking... Is there any way to pull out the box for the Tone Generators, disassemble it and identify which wheels, if any, are defective?
                          </p>

                          Tonight I'll be uploading the photos, I'll post those later. </p>


                          </p>

                          </p>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.

                            [quote user="Brendon Wright"]

                            http://www.captain-foldback.com/Hamm...ice_manual.zip</p>


                            </p>

                            [/quote]</p>

                             </p>

                            That thar XTP manual has a stack of guff on every'tang from the T-100 to the T-400.</p>

                            Download that and have a good look thru for fun! </p>
                            -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                            -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                            -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                            -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                            -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Church gave me a Hammond, and something's wrong.

                              [quote user="Brendon Wright"]

                              http://www.captain-foldback.com/Hamm...ics/t100series</p>

                              [/quote]</p>

                              And these schematics are the same as your T-200s</p>

                              You have to right click on each and "save as" to a folder on your desktop, because they're too big to view on your browser.</p>

                               </p>
                              -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                              -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                              -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                              -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                              -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X