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  • Allen speaker noise/distortion



    Hello all,</p>

    Recently I've begun playing the Allen Organ in my church it's a 2-manual.I believe an MOS-2. The Organ has four speakers which are "hidden" behind a wall (pics later, to better understand the setup.) </p>

     Anyway, I noticed that there is some distortion coming from one or two of the speakers when played loudly, or with certain registrations. It sounds almost like something is rattling in the speaker. Any idea as to what could be causing this? The Organ is probably circa mid-70s.</p>

    I would like to tell the Priest at my Church, and recommend that we have the Organ looked at, but I need a good story first.  </p>

  • #2
    Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion

    Certain models are prone to distortion at high volume. I don't think you would want to invest in a service call. If your speaker system begins to fail you'll have distortion at most volumes. If you search for the online manual at the Allen company site you may be able to confirm that the distortion is a limitation in your instrument. That's where I first learned about the situation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion

      Thanks for the reply. What a shame that's the case. I noticed that it doesn't have to happen at only loud volumes. Certain registrations can make this noise even when played as quiet as possible (swell shoe closed). It isn't a very large problem, but would of course be better if it weren't there. 

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion

        I would suggest further investigation because it is my guess that this is not a natural distortion from too much sound volume. Good luck!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion

          Any common problems that lead to this? 

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion



            jskumro,</p>

            If you indeed have a MOS2 organ, it would date from the early 80s.</p>

            The problem you describe could very well be foam rot on the 15" woofers. Would be especially noticeable on bass notes, or chords with bass content.</p>

            If the speakers drivers (15" woofers) have not been re-foamed or replaced by now, that would explain the problem.</p>

            AV
            </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion



              Joel,</P>


              The problem you describe is disclosed in the owner's manual. On that particular generation of instruments, the computers were slightly insufficient to handle the full compliment of stops on the organ--especially when coupled. When designed, the instruments were designed with artistic registration in mind--not putting down all the stops for more sound. As you progress, you'll probably also discover that there is a limit to the number of notes you can press (polyphony) before some start cutting out.</P>


              On my 505-B (MOS-2), I've found that on each manual, I can put down all of the louder stops and leave out stops which, if it were a pipe organ, wouldn't even color the sound in a full registration. An example of this is leaving out the Dulciana, or Celestes, or soft Flute, or Mutations (those stops with fractions on them) while Mixtures are being used (stops with the Roman numerals). I also have a Cor Anglais which is totally useless other than as a soft solo stop. In the Swell, when using the reed chorus, I leave out the Hautbois 8' and only use the Trompette 8'. Alterables will affect this as well.</P>


              Granted, it's not the ideal in organ registration, but that's generally the cause.</P>


              Another person mentioned "foam rot," aka a speaker's foam surround has disintegrated or begun flaking off. I destroyed a speaker foam in just 2 minutes one time by turning the up the volume. In that case, you'll probably hear the woofer rattling against the spider frame it's housed in. Mid-range speakers sound like they have an almost-dead fly lodged in them. I have found a fellow who re-cones my speakers for just $25-35/speaker. An MOS-2 is probably due. Just be sure that when you get the speakers back, that you wire them correctly. Incorrect or reverse polarity can cause the woofer to be totally ineffective. That's how I got my organ so cheap. Someone had cross-wired at least 3 of the woofers and the church complained because the organ had no bass! Their mistake--my gain!</P>


              All in all, it seems like a defect, considering today's technology, but don't forget that having a digital organ in the late '70s and early '80s was light-years ahead of any other music technology at that time. Mistakes will be made in production when you're on the "cutting edge of technology."</P>


              Hope this helps.</P>


              Michael</P>
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion

                [quote user="myorgan"]

                Joel,</p>

                The problem you describe is disclosed in the owner's manual.  On that particular generation of instruments, the computers were slightly insufficient to handle the full compliment of stops on the organ--especially when coupled.  When designed, the instruments were designed with artistic registration in mind--not putting down all the stops for more sound.  As you progress, you'll probably also discover that there is a limit to the number of notes you can press (polyphony) before some start cutting out.</p>

                On my 505-B (MOS-2), I've found that on each manual, I can put down all of the louder stops and leave out stops which, if it were a pipe organ, wouldn't even color the sound in a full registration.  An example of this is leaving out the Dulciana, or Celestes, or soft Flute, or Mutations (those stops with fractions on them) while Mixtures are being used (stops with the Roman numerals).  I also have a Cor Anglais which is totally useless other than as a soft solo stop.  In the Swell, when using the reed chorus, I leave out the Hautbois 8' and only use the Trompette 8'.  Alterables will affect this as well.</p>

                Granted, it's not the ideal in organ registration, but that's generally the cause.</p>

                Another person mentioned "foam rot," aka a speaker's foam surround has disintegrated or begun flaking off.  I destroyed a speaker foam in just 2 minutes one time by turning the up the volume.  In that case, you'll probably hear the woofer rattling against the spider frame it's housed in.  Mid-range speakers sound like they have an almost-dead fly lodged in them.  I have found a fellow who re-cones my speakers for just $25-35/speaker.  An MOS-2 is probably due.  Just be sure that when you get the speakers back, that you wire them correctly.  Incorrect or reverse polarity can cause the woofer to be totally ineffective.  That's how I got my organ so cheap.  Someone had cross-wired at least 3 of the woofers and the church complained because the organ had no bass!  Their mistake--my gain!</p>

                All in all, it seems like a defect, considering today's technology, but don't forget that having a digital organ in the late '70s and early '80s was light-years ahead of any other music technology at that time.  Mistakes will be made in production when you're on the "cutting edge of technology."</p>

                Hope this helps.</p>

                Michael</p>

                [/quote]</p>

                Thanks for the advice! I'm not sure yet what the cause is. I'm just learning Organ (self teaching myself unfortunately) so I will have to check my playing to see if I'm drawing too many stops. </p>

                 As for reconing, how much does it usually run? Is it usually that cheap? I could probably convince our priest to have them reconed if the cost isn't too high.  </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion



                  Hi Joel,</p>

                  Yes, definitely do take a close look at those speakers first. I've run into both the disintegrating foam surrounds and holes in the cones with some of my vintage speakers. The surrounds are fairly easy to replace as a DIY project if you can't find someone that will do it cheaply. There are speaker places that sell kits that include the new foam rings, cardboard spacer rings, the proper glue, and instructions. It does take a some careful and somewhat tedious work to get all the old foam and glue off since you certainly don't want to cause any damage to the cone. I had a fellow give me some old Allen HC-12's since there was very little woofer foam remaining and both of the mid-range foams were dried out and splitting. The kits cost me about $40 for each cabinet.(15" woofer and two ~6" mids, not applicable to the tweeter). </p>

                  </p>
                  Gary

                  Current: Rodgers 340 "Special", Gulbransen Rialto K (Both Versions), Allen Theatre Deluxe, Rodgers Olympic 333, Roland Atelier AT70 (I hope)
                  History: Rodgers 321B, Rodgers 740B, Gulbransen Theatrum, Hammond H-133, Thomas Malibu, Heathkit/Thomas Paramount

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Allen speaker noise/distortion



                    Thanks, Tinker! </p>

                     I've isolated the buzzing/distortion down to happening only on the swell. I will have to go in the attic to access the speakers, and I hopefully can do this soon when I have some time. I'm glad to hear it isn't too expensive. I'm sure I can talk our priest into doing so. (Next step is retrofitting a pipe organ into our church that clearly wasn't designed for one lol) </p>

                    I have noticed there is distortion when too many stops are pulled, and played somewhat loudly. This seems to be independent of the other noise comign from one of the speakers on the swell.</p>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You may want to contact partsexpress.com. The best place for speakers! The have a very fast turn around on reconing speakers. About $40 a piece.

                      John
                      Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Parts Express has a reconing service, to wit:

                        parts-express.com/src
                        [email protected]
                        1-800-270-7964

                        Comment

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