Tools

[Guest]

I've been wondering. Where the heck do you find an organ tuning knife or a tuning iron? [^o)]</p>

I spent the day watching an organ tuner do work on both of the organs I play on and came to the conclusion that such a little instrument could really come in handy for minor adjustments between tuning. The only place I could find one is organ industry suppliers and I think they're geared towards orders a bit larger than what I want! They also didn't have any price quotes. For the knife I'm looking for something that's problably 3mm x 15mm x 300mm
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Is there some way I can get a price quote and/or any information on one?</p>

[Guest]

Re: Tools

Try a chisel, that is what I use. Tap the tuning sleeve with the edge. It helps to have an insulated handle so that the metal part does not heat up from the warmth of the hand.

[FrenchHorn8]

Re: Tools

The 3mm x 15mm x 300mm tuning knife from OSI is $45.80, but worth every penny.  This is the one I use.

[Jay999]

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Hi Pipedreamer. Be careful about that. You might make your tuner mad about going in and changing things around. 99% of the time a tuning goes out because of temperature, change in the weather, etc. If you change an out of tune pipe today, you'll be back tomorrow to change it again. Keep a sharp eye out on the heating and air conditioning thermostat. That, most likely, is your reason for the organ not being in good tune.</P>


I get awfully upset when one of my clients goes in and changes things. After all, I've worked hard to set a series of temperaments and tapped on all the reeds to ensure they will stay on pitch. Invariably, when one of my clients has gone in to make changes, there has been damage to the instrument as a result. At the very least, the tuning temperament.</P>


If you go into the organ, your pants leg can snag a mixture and bend pipes, or you could trip on a cable raceway, or a windline and fall into the pipework, causing extensive damage. If you must enter the organ, then I guess you must. But be aware of the responsibility you are taking on. </P>
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[Guest]

Re: Tools



Thank you very much for the responses!</p>

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Jay, I spent the whole of yesterday with the organ tuner watching him do his duty as he walked around the organ chamber. I absolutely understand what you mean though, but what I want to use it for is a practice organ that has a 4' principal that has a few pipes that are a real pain to get to. I don't think that chistle would work because you have to get in between the pipes of an 8' gedeckt to access them. I obviously don't want to touch them with my bare hands, and feel that having such a tool would really help with that. The organ doesn't have any reeds, and I frankly wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole until I have a lot more experience with it. I got shown how to clean dirt under the reed, but not when to tune the slider and when to tune the 'sleeve' on the back of the pipe.</p>

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I have no plans to enter the major organ I play on without at least having someone there. I got warned about the mixtures as well yesterday. [A] Fortunately the worst thing I did all day was try to close the door to the swell box and discovered that the screw that held the top of it was adjustable and hit it against that. Wasn't the first though, there was a sizable indentation there before.</p>

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I just want to be able to tune little problems on the practice organ so that we don't have to spend $500 to get a tuner down from Tuscon, Arizona to New Mexico every time the organ gets a little ferocious.
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Are there any other places to get a tuning knife from than OSI? Or is that it basically?
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[FrenchHorn8]

Re: Tools



Pipedreamer,</p>

 Did you get my email?</p>

 If I were you, I wouldn't attempt cleaning reeds by yourself. </p>

[Jay999]

Re: Tools



Hi Pipedreamer. OSI handles the Fisk tool that French Horn was talking about. OSI also carries a couple of tools made by Laukhuff (German). Practically all tuner/techs have an account with OSI, and that would be your easiest way to obtain the tools you want. OSI does limit their sales to acknowledged techs, and might refuse your order.</P>


I haven't ordered from these folks in several years, so I don't know if they are still in business. But give it a try: Roche Organ Co., Inc. Taunton, Mass. Telephone (508) 823-0236 and Fax; (508) 880-9390. They handle "tuning knives" in stainless steel and hard brass. Several dimensions are available, which you could go over with them via your fax machine.</P>


Then there's Laukhuff. If you're shy about overseas phone call costs, you could write them. I always deal with Peter Laukhuff, because he speaks good english. Their contact is: August Laukhuff, GmbH and Co., D-6992, Weikersheim, Germany. Telephone: 011-49-7934-611. I haven't faxed them anything, but they're a class act, and I'm sure they can send you a faxed photo of tools, and probably by this time, even direct you to a Web site.</P>


Any of the above tools will cost you somewhere between $50.00 to $125.00, plus shipping.</P>


I use a "flat iron", cutfrom tool steel. It has a 45 degree angled tip on the end that catches pipe tuners without bouncing. It's a very comfortable tool to use all day, bacause of the angled tuning tip. I have my tuning tools re-cut every few years by a local machine shop for $100.00 apiece. I have two made at a time, as their minimum order is $200.00. Of course that tool is not practical for tuning small pipes. For those, I use an old, old flint steel kitchen carving knife. It's balanced perfectly, and does a great job where I want to delicately move small tuners, like mixtures, etc.</P>


Any number of times I have stopped at the kitchen knife section of Walmart and wondered over the assortment of high quality stainless steel carving kinves they stock. One of those is perfectly good as a tuning tool. You have a flat edge on top and a sharp edge on the bottom; both of which are handy for persuading tuning slides to move. The point on the end could be ground off on a grinding machine. You could probably do all of that for less than 50 bucks.</P>


Here in Atlanta, we've got 35 good, qualified technicians stumbling over each other! Don't you have anybody that's good, and closer to you, than a $500.00 tweek? At those prices, if I were in your shoes, especially with no reeds to maintain, I'd set the thermostat at 70 degrees, and leave it there, summer and winter. If you do that, you really shouldn't have that much of a tuning problem. If your gedeckts slip, repack them with some newspaper strips (metal pipes), or some flannel cloth pulled around the bottoms of the stoppers (wood pipes).</P>

[Guest]

Re: Tools



Hi all, thanks for the responses. I think I've unconsciously stepped on a land mine I didn't know existed with this topic!</p>

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I think, all things considered, I'm going to try Jay999's suggestion and snoop at the knife area in wal-mart. I mainly wanted something that I could do a little bit of stop tuning with, but I get the feeling that this is something that is a symbol of a pipe organ tuner who's been through years of training and is known and respected, and I definately don't want to upset that by pretending to be something I'm not. I sure don't know how to tune reeds, and I can see why something like that would be controlled when you want the industry to maintain it's respectability.</p>

I'd sure be pissed if some little kid showed up and claimed he could
tune my $500,000 instrument and ended up doing enough damage to make
you spend that money again.
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And Jay, I really wish that we had 35 technicians hopping around, but there simply isn't the market out here. In my city of Las Cruces we have a grand total of maybe 4 organs in the city, and I'm pretty sure we're about it in that area for about 70 miles in any direction. The AGO chapter basically is dead, with an occaisional pedals pipes and pizza, and one of the two established organ technicians in the area has an exclusive contract for caring for a theatre organ in El Paso and can only come out when he has times off from that job. I was fortunate enough to grab the tuner when he came by and watched him work (as far as I can tell, he did an excellent job and was very nice and very helpful in showing me how everything works) but he hadn't visited the practice organ I practice on in four years! And the last person who had tuned it apparently did something rather cute with the front of the blower case....[^o)]</p>

All in all, you really don't have much choice out here, so while I agree that any sort of serious organ tuning should be left to professionals, it's an unfortunate reality that things need care and sometimes that care isn't available. So I'd like to be able to do basic repairs and tuning on an organ when needed rather than have to sit helplessly until a technician shows up.</p>

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By the way, I might be pushing the envelope here in respectability, but would a stainless steel ruler work for adjust pipe sleeves on metal pipes? [;)]</p>

[soubasse32]

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[quote user="Pipedreamer"]I think, all things considered, I'm going to try Jay999's suggestion and snoop at the knife area in wal-mart. I mainly wanted something that I could do a little bit of stop tuning with, but I get the feeling that this is something that is a symbol of a pipe organ tuner who's been through years of training and is known and respected, and I definately don't want to upset that by pretending to be something I'm not.[/quote]</P>


Why would it be a problem to usea professionaltool for the job? [^o)] The goal should be to achieve good results in a way that protects the instrument from damage, and not worry about whether you are 'pretending to be something you are not'. Besides...who is to judge you, alone out there in the desert? [:)]Even ifyou don't know what you are doing it is better to have the right tools. At least that is a start.</P>


I like professional tuning tools because they have the right dimensions and weight - some also have a little notch at the end, which is helpful for pulling on tuning wires (among other things). A longer tuning knife will saveyou from having to reach or lean too far.</P>


One caveat - if you have any open-topped flue pipes that do not have tuning sleeves or scrolls, they are likely to be cone-tuned. Cone-tuned pipes require special tools andyou need to be taught howto tune them properly. I have seen lots of these pipes mangled by untrained tuners- those have to be cut apart and rebuilt.</P>

Try a chisel, that is what I use.

</P>


I would not recommend this - especially if you are just getting familiarized with working inside a pipe organ. Chisels are fat and heavy -too ungainly when working in close quarters with small pipes. A chisel has a lot of 'heft' to it, and since pipes are relatively softit would be all too easy to dentthem. Dropping a tuning tool (not an uncommon occurrence) could be a disaster with a chisel.A professional tuning tool is slender and light enough to help preventdenting pipes inadvertently.</P>

[Jay999]

Re: Tools



Hi Pipedreamer. The stainless steel ruler might work fine. It probably is slender enough to get in between the gedeckts you mentioned. I would think that the ruler has a chamfered edge ground on it, so when you get it up underneath the tuning slide, it probably will bounce off the slide and barely move it. But what the heck? Give it a try. The knives I mentioned that I see in Walmart are the rather long affairs....maybe 14 inches long. The blade has a square cut edge on the top, and of course the sharp edge on the bottom. The main feature with a knife like this is, if the square top edge bounces off the slide, you can turn the knife over and use the sharp edge to get under the slide and move it.Before you use that knife; be sure to have the point ground off, and rub the sharp edge down on a stone, or some concrete, to a dullness that won't cut your hands or fingers. A new stainless steel knife is VERY sharp. OK?</P>


Since you have no tuners around your area, what's the possibility that you could meet up with a tuner and work for him (free of charge) for a couple of weeks? It might be the best time you ever gave away! In that time frame, he could teach you enough about tuning flues, setting a temperament with a tuning machine, and get you started toward being a "handy man" around your town. Most tuners would like to have someone like that in a distant location to catch ciphers. I havefriends like that in a couple of my distant locations, and I'm glad to have them.</P>


This sort of experience would also season you to the temperature issues that make or break a good tuning. After you fully understand that the heat or air conditioning (and in your particular case....the humidity) has to be run long enough to stabilize the instrument for a tuning....as well as for a practice session; then you wouldspend more time practicing, rather than tuning. Consider some learning time with the tuner. Who knows; it might be the start of a whole new area of interestfor you. Tuning is not a "black art". It can be enjoyable for a musician, and beneficial for you in your location.</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Tools



If you do use a knife, I think it is an excellent suggestion to dull the edge and point before using it. Not only will it be safer for you, but it will avoid cutting/scratching the pipes.</P>


[quote user="Jay999"]This sort of experience would also season you to the temperature issues that make or break a good tuning.[/quote]</P>


As I always say,you tune an organ with the thermostat! That is an oversimplification of course, but it helps people understand how important it is to have a consistent temperature as far as pipe organs are concerned.</P>

[Havoc]

Re: Tools

I made a couple of those years ago. Went to a metal workshop and had them cut strips of inox of about the dimentions mentioned. Milled a wide groove at one end over the flat side for use with those notched reeds tuners and filed the edges around (except the notch). Only cost was a hour or 2 work.

[Guest]

Re: Tools



Hi, thank you all once again for your responses! I really like this forum because it has a good set of people who know what they're doing and are willing to share it!</p>

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Jay, the I love the idea of asking to follow the tuner around for a few weeks free of charge! That would be a perfect thing to do for the summer, I think. I will try the knife section this weekend and probably get the stainless steel ruler as well. I might actually just go to a real knife shop and talk to them; they'll probably be thankful to talk to someone who isn't just a collector of anime swords for once I bet.</p>

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Thank you all for the suggestions!</p>

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: Tools

it is always a education for me to watch those that know what they are doing with a pipe organ at work..I stopped by Monday afternoon briefly and watched Jay do some maintenance on a Austin organ...photo of him adjusting the wires on a troublesome piston button.

[Jay999]

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Ha Ha, NYC. An Austin sure will teach you how to bend wires!