Chamades

[Guest]

Hey there, </P>


The minister at my church said that we could have people by a pipe and donate them in honour of someone. So, I'm thinking of getting an estimate to see how much installing chamades would cost. The organ in question is a 24 rank Casavant, located in the chancel,in an acoustic that is more on the dry side, in a large A frame church that seatsabout 400-500 people with a large balcony. I would consider Casavant, but I amalso very muchinterested in what other builders can offer. Some other considerations I have in mind in no particular order:</P>


- The option and the costof having them placed antiphonally, at the balcony, but away from the chimes which are also there.</P>


- Allow this stop to be accessible to any manual and the pedals. </P>


- Or perhaps a more mellower reed stop in case the chamades may be too loud? </P>


Any suggestions/thoughts/ideas? </P>

[Don Furr]

Re: Chamades



Hi ReedGuy......</p>

If you have a choice of placement then I would opt for the rear balcony.</p>

I would want the Party Horn to play from all manuals including the pedal</p>

And like any other flue/reed stop, tonal finishing and voicing is EVERYTHING. A reed can be disigned/built/voiced for any room. I have no dog in this hunt but I would recommend A. R. Schoop's http://www.arschopp.com/default.aspx</p>

Good luck with your Chamade project and please do keep us up to date on your progress.
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[Guest]

Re: Chamades



Trivo Co Hagerstown MD makes a very lovely spun brass chamade.</P>


It is beautifully voiced andI suggest 7'' wind pressure for your room.</P>


Have your local tech obtain the mechanicals from Organ Supply-chest,frame, blower etc and have him do the installation.</P>


It will be an enormous savings over having a mainline builder with huge overhead to do the job.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Chamades



Trivo Co Hagerstown MD makes a very lovely spun brass chamade.</P>


It is beautifully voiced andI suggest 7'' wind pressure for your room.</P>


Have your local tech obtain the mechanicals from Organ Supply-chest,frame, blower etc and have him do the installation.</P>


It will be an enormous savings over having a mainline builder with huge overhead to do the job.</P>

[steverequiem]

Re: Chamades

The estimate I received for an en chamade a couple organs ago was $20,000.  That was very conservative as well.  Have you considered a Tuba?

[Don Furr]

Re: Chamades

I believe we paid $35,000 for ours. 2002 saw the completion of the new Trompette En Chamade mounted on the
rear window of the sanctuary. This trumpet stop has received much
notoriety among organist in Atlanta. It is a commanding sound with
good presence without be abrasive to listen to. The new reed was built
with polished Brass resonators with flared bell ends. It is voiced on
7 1/2 inches of wind pressure.

[pipecutter]

Re: Chamades



It would be cheaper if you could keep it with the main organ AND you already had a blower capable of running it. Running conduits, providing separate blowers, reservoirsand rigging for horizontal placement are a large part of the extra cost of a chamade. I would not recommend flared bells. They are pretty but can be a detriment to the sound unless you want a posthorn quality. The choice between a brighter "French" sound and the darker "English" quality should be based on the character of the existing instrument. If the room isn't too long, rear gallery placement is sonically the best option.</P>


Having it play on all divisionsas anon-coupling stop would give you the greatest options fo its use.</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Chamades



I guess I'll be the wet blanket here... [8-)]</P>


I don't think a Chamade is the right thing to put on such a small instrument - especially since it is in a dry acoustic. That won't sound pretty! [:O]</P>


I've seenso manyinstruments with the obligatory chamade reed -most of them are horrible!Considering themanyinstruments that I have tuned there is only one Chamade that I (and my colleagues) think is a true success; one of the primereasons is because the roomhaslots of cubic volumeand is pleasantly reverberant. The reed sounds quite free, open, and unforced - no quacking ducks there! The rest of the organis large enough tohold its own against the Chamade.</P>


Since a Chamade is such a specialty stop it should be used sparingly; with only 20-some stopsorganists would tend to use it much more often than is really appropriate. Think of how much more useful another 8' Flute might be.</P>


My vote would go towards adding an all-purposestop that any organist would behappy to use in every registration:Flexibility. [8-|]</P>


Oh, right... I meant to ask if you would mind posting the specification. An instrument of that size is bound to have a 'hole' somewhere in its specification.This projectwould be a goodway to remedy that - make the spec more complete.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Chamades



If the room is long (at least 4 times as wide), has high ceilings and with 4 or more seconds of reverb, and if the pipes can be placed high enough above heads, then you might consider an en chamade. In a shorter room, with dry acoustics, I'd think a state or hoodedtrumpet or tuba would be the better blend and allow for a big crown to the plenum rather than a less used solo stop. to me, for 90% of regular worship,a big chorus reed is prefered. Also,en chamades, to me, are best savored in bites, rather than full courses. [D]</P>


I have 1 blank knob on the gt and since all the other divisions are complete now I'm dreaming of what to put there. I asked about a solo reed. Our builder quoted me about $20,000 fora tuba or state trumpet(we'd have to add chest, wiring,etc). In all actuallity, in our room, I'm going with an independant 2 rank sesquialtera instead. We already have chorus trumpets on gt and sw. What are your specs otherwise?</P>

[Guest]

Re: Chamades

Avoiding the chamade altogether eliminates the risk of ending up with this:
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<td align="center" valign="top" width="192">
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Don Furr]

Re: Chamades



[quote user="Mekongnarra"]Avoiding the chamade altogether eliminates the risk of ending up with this:</p>

I am totally speechless. This MUST be a photoshop....right?[:|]
</p><table style="font-size: 12px;" rules="none" width="194" bgcolor="#000000" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" frame="void" height="198"><tbody><tr><td width="42"> </td>
<td valign="top" width="192" align="center">
</td></tr></tbody></table>[/quote]

[davidecasteel]

Re: Chamades



Surely there are other ways to avoid that risk. It's interesting, true, but utterly tasteless.</P>


David</P>

[Guest]

Re: Chamades

This photo is from the great site: http://www.die-orgelseite.de/kurioses_e.htm#prospekte I suspect it is not a product of photoshop!

[Don Furr]

Re: Chamades



[quote user="Mekongnarra"]This photo is from the great site: http://www.die-orgelseite.de/kurioses_e.htm#prospekte I suspect it is not a product of photoshop!
[/quote]</p>

Ha Ha Mekongnarra I believe you......but.....dear Lord!!!!!!!!!!
</p>

[regeron]

Re: Chamades



I belive that the photo is of the chamade in the gallery at St. Clement's Anglican Church, Toronto.</P>


I think that some chamades work, and others don't. To help understand the ones that don't, imagine being in your own church with the choir standing where the organ pipes are. Then imagine aterribly loud soloist singing with your choir. Where would you place that soloist? Remember that you can't have them stand in a different place each week, or even for each anthem. Once you assign their location, they're there. Would you want them yelling from the balcony each week? If you and your choir value blend, you will seek a different solution.</P>


If the room doesn't really allow for the full volume of sound from the main organ to reach every corner, you're best to place the chamade with the main organ. I know one building with a low-ish ceiling, but a large seating capacity. Huge organ at the front, but with each step you take towards the back of the church, you lose volume and energy. These people then put the chamade [and a loud one at that] at the back of the church. When you sit at the console, the balance is wonderful. When you seat anywhere in the rear half of the church, all you hear is the chamade;it overpowers. Blend is not a word that comes to mind when you hear it. And if you sit in one of the last 5rows, you better hope that someone warns you it's coming, or you're likely to die from the shock of the first note. In fact, Iheard oncethat they do have to print notices in the Sunday bulletin, letting people know when it's going to be used.</P>


I think the 24-stop spec should be shown to us here, as someone else suggested. A second vertical trumpet inside the case would be better, in my humble opinion.</P>


I know of another smaller, 2-manualCanadian-built organ with a 4' chamade. The overall voicing is beautiful, but a bit on the gentle side. The 4' chamade is necessary whenever the congregation is going full-tilt on a favorite hymn. It's showy, which might have been what they wanted, but a stronger principal chorus, or a good solid 8' chorus trumpet would have been a better solution.</P>


Another problem with chamades is that because of their directional quality - they're loudest in the direction that they're pointing - some may hear it loud, while others don't. Again, a vertical trumpet would be a better solution.</P>


Maybe we should start a new thread for suggestions for those congregations that want visible flash. How to doll up an organ without resorting to the chamade. Stencilled pipes, banners that aren't sound absorptive, carved angels, or maybe even just a new hairdo for the organist.</P>