How would you name this Stop?

[tommy_kingma]

Hello. </P>


I have been asked to help an organ builderwith an organ which isbeing restored after a long period of suffering damages and not being played. </P>


All the pipes are (gladly) in perfect state, but some other things, like the leather of bellows (which seems to be bitten by rats), wiring,and parts of wood need to be replaced.</P>


The console is also completly useless now, andany of the names of the stops can be read now(seems that dust and time erased them). A new console is being built and in order to name the stops again, as there aren't any documents which show the originalspecification of the organ, most of the nomenclature is being done with treatases of organ building and trying to follow the common names oftheoriginal building-style of the organ (which is German romantic). Gladly, most of theranks (which aren't a lot, about 17) have been aproximatelyidentified.</P>


So, here comes my question: </P>


There's a rank of 8' flue metalpipes, of flute scale (except in thelast octave inwhich they're narrower), which are placed under expression. The pipes seemed to be voiced in a very soft way. In most of the compass (except the highest register) the pipes have eachavery thin metalbarwhich is placed in the middle of the mouth. The timbre of the pipes is airy and stringy, with aslightchiff (not too much), and is softer than the 8' flute of the same division. What could this stop be? or better said, How would you name this Stop?</P>


Note: The organ builder and I have made some guesses but I would like to see other people's opinions about this, so we can make a proper choice.</P>


Thanks in advance, and also, forgive my poor english.</P>

[Guest]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Have you looked at the Organ Historical Society database?</P>


They have a search engine - you can search by state, city, and church. There is at least a possibility that the information might be in their database.</P>


http://organsociety.bsc.edu/</P>
<P mce_keep="true">Oops - didn't notice that you weren't in the USA. Sorry.</P>
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[Guest]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



I just found an interesting article on organs in South America. Link below:</P>


http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/FS/ag.html</P>


The author may have some helpfulideas - and the article has a contact link.</P>
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[Philip the organist]

Re: How would you name this Stop?

Dolce Flute? Dulciana perhaps?

[jbird604]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Erzahler? Or is it a celeste-tuned rank, perhaps paired with the flute or string?</P>


John</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Have you identified the builder of the organ? Different organbuilders had their favorite stops, so you will want to research typical names for that specific builder. Was it actually built in Germany?</P>


An approximate age would be helpful. Certain stops would be more idiomaticdepending on the specifictime the organ was built.</P>


Do none of the pipes have any markings? Often you will find some sort of identification stamped or painted onto pipework, perhaps on low "C".</P>


Sometimes the names of the stops arehidden inside the console,if thereis some sort ofcombination action or crescendo mechanism (usually on more recent instruments).</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The organ was almost entirely built in Germany, except for some wood pipes. The builder is E.F. Walcker house, but sadly, they don't keep recordings for many of thesmall instruments they built for Latin-american churches, except maybe forsome that were larger and more expensive (i.e. the one from the mainCathedral of my city, which is the largest in Colombia). </P>


I don't havethe Opus number, but have an aproximate date which is 1950, and the assembler was Oskar Binder,which assembledall E.F. Walcker's instruments in my country.</P>


The console is in deplorable state, nothing can be find out there. And for an identification on the low "C", there's any.</P>


My guess it's not a celeste either because there isn't any (other?) string in the same division, and I don't think Walcker's instruments included a Flute Celeste in their spec.</P>


It's neither a Dulcian, there's one in the great, and it's identic to other Dulcians by the same Organ-builder house.</P>


It's not a Salicional because those I have seen in the same line, are narrow scaled through all the compass, higher-cut for the mouth, and without the peculiar metal bar in the middle of pipe's mouth's.</P>


It's not a Gamba because those ones are invariably put in a Choir division, or never put under expression. (And this instrument is a 2 manual).</P>


Flauto dolce wasn't a stop name employed by them (have never seen it in any of their instruments).</P>


Hope to have more suggestions.</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



</P>


A pic of the consolewhich was taken a couple years ago by an independet journal. Justto give you an ideaofthe statein which it was found. </P>

[davidecasteel]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Boy, that console really has been rode hard and put away wet!</P>


Since the tone is softer than the other flute in that division and has no distinguishing physical characteristics (not conical, tapered, belled, stopped, or harmonic), why not just call it "Minor Flute" (or "Flute Minor") and be done with it?</P>


David</P>

[davidecasteel]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Boy, that console really has been rode hard and put away wet!</P>


Since the tone is softer than the other flute in that division and has no distinguishing physical characteristics (not conical, tapered, belled, stopped, or harmonic), why not just call it "Minor Flute" (or "Flute Minor") and be done with it?</P>


David</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



That picture makes me sick! What happened to cause such damage?</p>

Is the bar a beard? See http://www.concertartist.info/organh...ks/works03.htm, the third picture from the bottom shows a bearded pipe. The stop may have been a Klein-Gedackt.</p>

Can you provide a picture of one of the pipes and a recording of it playing? That would help identify it more accurately.
</p>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The console is in that state not only because abandon, but also humidity, and a bad use made by people with no sense of care. Also, some unconscient people seemed to"borrow" pieces of it, as they thought the organ wouldn't play! (And it certainly doesn't).</P>


The bar is less thick if one can qualify it like that. As thin as 2 mm I would say. It's not covering the down part of the mouth, but it'sjust in the middle of it, dividing it in two equal halves.I'm so sorry my english isso poor, because Iknow I can describe it better in my own language.</P>


I don't think it is a Gedackt. Normally there're two (or even three) Stopped Flute Stops in an specification of a Walcker organ.</P>


The most common is called Bordon, made of metal and stopped with foam (?),it's at 8' pitchand always in the Great. A 4' version is called Ocarina and it's found under expression. A16' pitch version of this is onlyfound in the largest organs.</P>


The second is called Subbajo, it's squared and made of wood. It's found at 16' andalways belongs to pedal. A 32' version (the only one of it's kind) is in thelargest organ in this country(And there it's named Gran Bordon).</P>


The third is called Tapado, it's a type of Pommer, at 8' pitch, only made for two organs actually, one found in theGreat and the other in the Pedal.</P>


This stop doesn't qualify as any of these.</P>


Found the specification ofthe third largest organ in Colombia, which is in theConcert Room of the National Library. You'll be dissapointed to see how "small" it is. http://www.lablaa.org/conciertos-organo.htm(Search at the bottom of the site. Hope you understand some spanish). It has a lot of mistakes in typeset and in equating the spanishname of the stops to a "more common" one.</P>


As for recordings and/or pictures, that would take me about a week to get them.</P>


Thanks for your help.</P>


[Edit: The order of the manuals is unusual, I manual is the Great, II manual is the Choir and III manual is the Swell.]</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The order of manuals is not at all unusual for a German instrument. [8-|]</P>


I'm not sure that it might be considered a Romantic instrument -German instruments of the 1950's tended to be of the neo-baroque style.</P>


Could you tell usif the pipes are stoppered, partially stoppered, or are open? That will have a major bearing on the name of the stop.</P>


Are the pipes cylindrical, or conical? If conical, is the taper a 'normal' one (larger diameter at the base than at the top)or is the taper inverted? Or is only the top of the pipe conical?</P>


Do you see any evidence of a hole pierced in the side?</P>


There are many possibilities for stops - in reviewing somemid-century Walcker stoplists I find such names as Portunalflöte, Schweizerpfeife (which can have a string-like tone), Dolce, Spindelflöte (with a tapered top), Harfpfeife (a bit stringy), Sanftflöte, Wienerflöte, Zartflöte (which may have a harmonic bridge across the mouth), Viola d'Amour/Liebesgeige (if it is indeed a string stop).</P>


At this point it is sounding like a Zartflöte- but more information is needed.</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



I'm sure thatmost (if not all) of the instruments built by them in Colombia are not Neobarroque. A 440, equal temperament, strings in their specs (including celestes), at least a percussion or toy stop in their spec (except for Zimbelstern), an expressive division, the way of voicingPrincipal stops(as the one I described in this post http://organforum.com/forums/thread/69618.aspx), not an excesive work of mixtures (just in the right measure to give theirinstrumentsthe parcticular sound of German organs), the use of imitative[modern]orchestral reeds.</P>


That to begin with :).</P>


Now... the pipes are indeed cylindrical and are also open. I haven't checked if there's any evidence of a hole pierced in the side, but think it isn't.</P>


That's all I can answer by now. Thanks for all your help :).</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Nope, no hole pierced in the pipe. </P>


Also, I realized that they aren't 17 speakingstops but 23, the organ builder just told me. Don't know why I thought that they wereonly17.</P>


[Edit]</P>


Also found the specification of the first Walcker organ installed in Colombia. </P>


It's42 stop organ found in Cali's Cathedral, the second largest of the Country along with Bogota's Main Cathedral (installed by Binder)and the original (now different) spec. of the Instituto la Salle (in Bogota aswell) which was installed in the same year. Only this two organs were assembled by Eugen Mäule (bothbetween 1925-28). The largest organ is 51 stops, and as I've said, is in the main Cathedral of my City (Medellin).</P>


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