How would you name this Stop?

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Well, I couldn't record the pipes and must send the list with the name of the stops this week. I can still regret, but the name we choose for this stop was Flautado de Viola [8-|]. The name is almost correct except for the treble, in which the pipes have no beard. The pipes are perhaps overblown and have an hybrid sound. I'm still open to suggestions before saturday morning -6 GMT.</P>


Thanks for all who made suggestions. [:D]</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



In his "Dictionary of Organ Stops" J. I. Wedgwood states:
</p>

"The use of beards has entirely revolutionized string tone voicing...The application of a beard to a pipe which has (is) overblown into its octave will at once restore the ground tone;...
</p>

"The addition of 'side beards', as ears are named in Germany, is not regarded as a needless distortion of the pipe...," </p>

</p>

You may have an overblown string. If you can do two recordings, do one blowing normally and a second recording blowing extremely hard to get the pitch an octave higher.[|-)]
</p>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Luckily the pipes are in perfect state. I don't think it's a Vox Celeste (Or Voz celeste as we call it in spanish) because it should be paired with another string, and I think it's the only one in this division.</P>


Aeolin/Eolín Could be a very good option for the name of the stop, but I'm not sure if the construction of the pipes are those of an Aeolin.</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: How would you name this Stop?

Blowing into the pipe is alright if that's all that can be done. Try to get as big a breath as you can so the sound lasts a few seconds. From the list you furnished I would guess it may be an Eolin or Voz Celeste if it seems to be tuned slightly sharp or flat compared to one of the other ranks. Considering the amount of damage, you may have to go with a "best guess" name. If the pipes are as damaged as the console, you might be forced to replace many of them anyway.

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Will see if I have time to record the pipes in these days. Is it fine if I just "blow" them? I think it is not possible to play them by now, as the organ in which they're placed is not playable. I know of an organ which could "contain them" (like placing them into it's chest) but we can't be sure the pressure is the right one, nor I'm the right person to try to tune them, so, why would you suggest?</P>


I would like to have a bit more of an idea about what could this stop be. As the console is done with Stoptabs (instead of Drawknobs), the idea would be to make a good layout of them and to haveall of them marked. </P>


The console is being built in a foreign country,so we wouldlike notto missa Tab (because leaving a blank space, or leaving the tab blank and then sending it again to be marked would take a lot of time),and wecan not have muchdelays, as the person who is affording the project is very impatient, I need still to have an approximate name, it's quite urgent.</P>


If we succeed indoing this restoration properly,maybe the same person, or people related, would help to afford other organ restorations.</P>


You just can't imagine how important is this project to me. I really beg you all to hurry with answers, please.</P>


Thanks in advance.</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?

Woops. Sorrry to make several posts, but the manuals of this organ are even more unusual. They're Positive, Swell and Eco.

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Nope, no hole pierced in the pipe. </P>


Also, I realized that they aren't 17 speakingstops but 23, the organ builder just told me. Don't know why I thought that they wereonly17.</P>


[Edit]</P>


Also found the specification of the first Walcker organ installed in Colombia. </P>


It's42 stop organ found in Cali's Cathedral, the second largest of the Country along with Bogota's Main Cathedral (installed by Binder)and the original (now different) spec. of the Instituto la Salle (in Bogota aswell) which was installed in the same year. Only this two organs were assembled by Eugen Mäule (bothbetween 1925-28). The largest organ is 51 stops, and as I've said, is in the main Cathedral of my City (Medellin).</P>


</P>


</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



I'm sure thatmost (if not all) of the instruments built by them in Colombia are not Neobarroque. A 440, equal temperament, strings in their specs (including celestes), at least a percussion or toy stop in their spec (except for Zimbelstern), an expressive division, the way of voicingPrincipal stops(as the one I described in this post http://organforum.com/forums/thread/69618.aspx), not an excesive work of mixtures (just in the right measure to give theirinstrumentsthe parcticular sound of German organs), the use of imitative[modern]orchestral reeds.</P>


That to begin with :).</P>


Now... the pipes are indeed cylindrical and are also open. I haven't checked if there's any evidence of a hole pierced in the side, but think it isn't.</P>


That's all I can answer by now. Thanks for all your help :).</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The order of manuals is not at all unusual for a German instrument. [8-|]</P>


I'm not sure that it might be considered a Romantic instrument -German instruments of the 1950's tended to be of the neo-baroque style.</P>


Could you tell usif the pipes are stoppered, partially stoppered, or are open? That will have a major bearing on the name of the stop.</P>


Are the pipes cylindrical, or conical? If conical, is the taper a 'normal' one (larger diameter at the base than at the top)or is the taper inverted? Or is only the top of the pipe conical?</P>


Do you see any evidence of a hole pierced in the side?</P>


There are many possibilities for stops - in reviewing somemid-century Walcker stoplists I find such names as Portunalflöte, Schweizerpfeife (which can have a string-like tone), Dolce, Spindelflöte (with a tapered top), Harfpfeife (a bit stringy), Sanftflöte, Wienerflöte, Zartflöte (which may have a harmonic bridge across the mouth), Viola d'Amour/Liebesgeige (if it is indeed a string stop).</P>


At this point it is sounding like a Zartflöte- but more information is needed.</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The console is in that state not only because abandon, but also humidity, and a bad use made by people with no sense of care. Also, some unconscient people seemed to"borrow" pieces of it, as they thought the organ wouldn't play! (And it certainly doesn't).</P>


The bar is less thick if one can qualify it like that. As thin as 2 mm I would say. It's not covering the down part of the mouth, but it'sjust in the middle of it, dividing it in two equal halves.I'm so sorry my english isso poor, because Iknow I can describe it better in my own language.</P>


I don't think it is a Gedackt. Normally there're two (or even three) Stopped Flute Stops in an specification of a Walcker organ.</P>


The most common is called Bordon, made of metal and stopped with foam (?),it's at 8' pitchand always in the Great. A 4' version is called Ocarina and it's found under expression. A16' pitch version of this is onlyfound in the largest organs.</P>


The second is called Subbajo, it's squared and made of wood. It's found at 16' andalways belongs to pedal. A 32' version (the only one of it's kind) is in thelargest organ in this country(And there it's named Gran Bordon).</P>


The third is called Tapado, it's a type of Pommer, at 8' pitch, only made for two organs actually, one found in theGreat and the other in the Pedal.</P>


This stop doesn't qualify as any of these.</P>


Found the specification ofthe third largest organ in Colombia, which is in theConcert Room of the National Library. You'll be dissapointed to see how "small" it is. http://www.lablaa.org/conciertos-organo.htm(Search at the bottom of the site. Hope you understand some spanish). It has a lot of mistakes in typeset and in equating the spanishname of the stops to a "more common" one.</P>


As for recordings and/or pictures, that would take me about a week to get them.</P>


Thanks for your help.</P>


[Edit: The order of the manuals is unusual, I manual is the Great, II manual is the Choir and III manual is the Swell.]</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



That picture makes me sick! What happened to cause such damage?</p>

Is the bar a beard? See http://www.concertartist.info/organh...ks/works03.htm, the third picture from the bottom shows a bearded pipe. The stop may have been a Klein-Gedackt.</p>

Can you provide a picture of one of the pipes and a recording of it playing? That would help identify it more accurately.
</p>

[davidecasteel]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Boy, that console really has been rode hard and put away wet!</P>


Since the tone is softer than the other flute in that division and has no distinguishing physical characteristics (not conical, tapered, belled, stopped, or harmonic), why not just call it "Minor Flute" (or "Flute Minor") and be done with it?</P>


David</P>

[davidecasteel]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



Boy, that console really has been rode hard and put away wet!</P>


Since the tone is softer than the other flute in that division and has no distinguishing physical characteristics (not conical, tapered, belled, stopped, or harmonic), why not just call it "Minor Flute" (or "Flute Minor") and be done with it?</P>


David</P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



</P>


A pic of the consolewhich was taken a couple years ago by an independet journal. Justto give you an ideaofthe statein which it was found. </P>

[tommy_kingma]

Re: How would you name this Stop?



The organ was almost entirely built in Germany, except for some wood pipes. The builder is E.F. Walcker house, but sadly, they don't keep recordings for many of thesmall instruments they built for Latin-american churches, except maybe forsome that were larger and more expensive (i.e. the one from the mainCathedral of my city, which is the largest in Colombia). </P>


I don't havethe Opus number, but have an aproximate date which is 1950, and the assembler was Oskar Binder,which assembledall E.F. Walcker's instruments in my country.</P>


The console is in deplorable state, nothing can be find out there. And for an identification on the low "C", there's any.</P>


My guess it's not a celeste either because there isn't any (other?) string in the same division, and I don't think Walcker's instruments included a Flute Celeste in their spec.</P>


It's neither a Dulcian, there's one in the great, and it's identic to other Dulcians by the same Organ-builder house.</P>


It's not a Salicional because those I have seen in the same line, are narrow scaled through all the compass, higher-cut for the mouth, and without the peculiar metal bar in the middle of pipe's mouth's.</P>


It's not a Gamba because those ones are invariably put in a Choir division, or never put under expression. (And this instrument is a 2 manual).</P>


Flauto dolce wasn't a stop name employed by them (have never seen it in any of their instruments).</P>


Hope to have more suggestions.</P>