the new organ of the 2000w, Topic: Lack of Stops in the pedal department,

[Ben Madison]

I think it best to start up a convention of our own and layout a new design for the organ of the 2000s. I think it is best that we look at the past and figure out what is to be done.

With this said i propose this thread to be the starting point to talk pipe organs of the 2000s and with this in mind i will start the first topic of conversation.

the pedal department lacks its own development, it seems that the pedal is the last thing to be considered. Here is what i would like to see in a new pedal department.

1. Floating Divisions for the pedal alone.
2. increased stop count.
3. Complete spectrum instead of just "Boom" and rumbles.
4.divided expression.

Feel free to comment on the list or add on.

[voet]

Ben, what style of organ do you have in mind? There would be different requirements for a classic, church or theater organ.

[Ben Madison]

I was speaking generally. kind of make a foundation to start s conversation feel free to apply the post above to want and see how it pans out.

[samibe]

Divided pedal expression sounds interesting. That would offer some registration flexibility with pedal parts.
There are times when I wish there was a complement of 4', 2', and 1' pedal stops so that I could solo a treble melody line with my feet while my hands take care of other parts.

[Ben Madison]

Their are days i feel the manuals are overloaded and not enough recourses for the pedals

[myorgan]

On a classical organ, those pitches can always be coupled from a manual-or in your case, an Alterable or two. If they were available on the pedals, they would ONLY be available on the pedals and unavailable to the keyboards. By keeping them on the manuals, they're available to the entire organ.

Michael

[samibe]

I do that on my 3-manual at home. If I want to use both manuals on a two manual though, then I can't sacrifice a division to help out the pedals. For the record: I understand that reworking music for less equipped organs is part of the reality of playing organ. Although, I really miss divided expression on the organ at my church.

[Ben Madison]

Myorgan you have see actually my problem. often times pedal organs are made whole cloth out out whole sale borrowing from other divisions sometimes you are given like ten ranks to the pedal or five but the rest is wholesale borrowing.

this i feel tends to create a less independent division.

[Admin]

Myorgan you have see actually my problem. often times pedal organs are made whole cloth out out whole sale borrowing from other divisions sometimes you are given like ten ranks to the pedal or five but the rest is wholesale borrowing.

this i feel tends to create a less independent division.

What is desirable is not always practical or even possible. First there is the issue of money. More ranks = more money. If you have a limited budget, then maybe the money required for a 1' pedal stop is better spent on something more useful.

Even if you have unlimited an budget, you still have to put all those pipes, or speakers and electronics, somewhere, so space for that can be an issue.

Organs exist in the real world and are subject to real limitations. There is an interdependence between instruments and the music written for them. Organs and organ music have evolved together. So perhaps, too, there is no need, because it is not called for in the literature, to have greater independence and flexibility in the pedal division than customary.

If you're proposing a hypothetical fantasy organ where cost and space are no object, I don't see much point to this discussion. Since there are no limitations, you can suit yourself. If you search back in this channel, you'll find some humongous specs for fantasy organs. Totally pointless, in my opinion, as many of these specs had every rank under the sun at every pitch. Pointless because they would never be built, heard, or evaluated as musical instruments.

Organ building is an art, and like all art, has boundaries. A successful and skillful builder knows how to build a practical, flexible, and musical instrument within the boundaries of time, space, and money.

[Ben Madison]

Everyone is throwing out arguments that illistrate why this thread needed to be started. I was looking for a place yes these fantastical ideas are thrown around, lets dream.

[samibe]

I would definitely consider the organ in this thread a contender for a true modern pipe organ. I don't care so much for the touch screens for registering on the fly, but it would be highly configurable.
https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-touch-screens
https://klais.de/m.php?sid=481

[Ben Madison]

I would definitely consider the organ in this thread a contender for a true modern pipe organ. I don't care so much for the touch screens for registering on the fly, but it would be highly configurable.
https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-touch-screens
https://klais.de/m.php?sid=481

Good start i wonder what lcd screens on stop faces would be a good start.

[VaPipeorgantuner]

Well, the subject of cost has already been brought up. The fact is that the bottom octave of any rank of pipes is the most costly of any given rank. The bottom octave of an 8' rank (12 pipes) costs as much as the rest of the 49 pipes to make in both materials and labor costs. 16' pitched ranks are even more costly in both materials and labor. In almost any pipe organ there has to be some compromise in the development of the pedal division, which is where unification tends to be most effective if it is done thoughtfully - seeking a balance between affordability and musical result.

Digital organs provide opportunity to expand the pedal division to rival the manual divisions, but again some restraint is needed so that the pedal and manual divisions balance each other within reason.

Rick in VA