Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project

[Guest]

Latest Spec. proposal / ideas :
<FONT color=#5493b4>http://zionorgan.com/HWForumImages/ZionSkinnerWicksSpecification.htm</FONT>

PLEASE! make comments / suggestions - particularly in Great and Positive.
But bear the following in mind:

1. Swell and Choir shall be 100% Hauptwerk to avoid the expense of swell enclosures, tremulants, etc. I'm pretty sure I want them as-is. If it was good enough for Skinner...

2. No real reeds

3. Crown Positive will be a floating division.

- console will be 3 manuals, pedal, drawknob stops, and tablet rocker couplers

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



Regarding the Crown Positive (Positiv?), may I suggest that you add, via Hauptwerk, a delicate Principal or Gemshorn 8, a Flute 4, a Kleinmixtur 1-1/3, and perhaps an 8-foot reed such as a Krummhorn or Schalmei?</P>


Regarding the Great, you might consider a 4-rank mixture and a 3-rank sharp mixture rather than the Harmonics III?</P>


Hope this helps and good luck!</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



My chief concern is that you will get the 'oil/water effect' with mixing a romantic Skinner and a rather neo-baroque looking Wicks. [:^)] Blend will be quite difficult.</P>


But I don't suppose that will change the course [:D] so I will offer some other thoughts.</P>


Is there any way to add a 16' Bourdon to the Swell? A Diapason can be rather big and a Gamba can be rather small; the Bourdon should be 'just right'. That, plus it is called for in quite a few organ works.</P>


I worry about that 32' Bombarde seeing as how you only have a 16' Waldhorn in the manuals. Either you need to add a larger 16' reed to the manuals (perhaps a Posaune) or you need to scale back the Pedal reed (perhaps a Contra-Fagotto or Contra-Waldhorn).</P>


Regarding the Crown-Positive... I understand the desire for a Tierce! However, I would dowhatever it takesto make sure it is all pipework. I wouldn't have one isolated digital mutation rank when the rest of the division is made up of pipes.</P>


Are the Koppel Flute and Wald Flute both at 8' pitch? If so, you need to have a 4' rank in order to complete the Cornet.</P>


I suggest you move the Chamade to the Crown Positive, as it will then be able to float to any division.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



Are the Koppel Flute and Wald Flute both at 8' pitch? If so, you need to have a 4' rank in order to complete the Cornet.</P>


No. That was completely an error. The Koppel Flute is at 4' - I will fix the spec.</P>


This organ has no tierce. It is pre - neo-baroque. It was a huge 6 division Wicks. (1952) A poor man's Skinner 'if you will'.</P>


To get a real pipes Tierce, I could maybe try to use pipes that were originally in the Great Plein Jeux or the Swell Dolce Cornet III</P>

[Guest]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">My nagging concern is that this is too much spec for the room.</SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Honest. But I can't find much in the Skinner Swell and Choir I want to get rid of.</SPAN></P>

[Guest]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



Hi all,</P>


Crown Positiv has been axed.
Great and Swell has been lightened.
Intra-manualcouplers have been nixed.
Harmonics III is 17,19,22 by the way.</P>


http://zionorgan.com/HWForumImages/Z...cification.htm</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project

How about a 16-foot Bourdon on the Swell and a 4-foot reed (Krummhorn?) on the Pedal?

[soubasse32]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



I really like the 16' Bourdon idea (in the Swell) but am afraid I don't like the 4' Krummhorn at all - it istoo neo-baroque, foreign to a Skinner organ concept. But you already knew that about me Mensch. [;)] I know you love those Bach chorale preludes! I suppose he could super-couple the Choir Clarinet to the Pedal, but there are other options such as registering orchestrally. I find that I don't play a lot of Bach on Skinners or I register orchestrally, in a sort of 1920's style. It works!</P>


This spec is looking pretty good; I appreciate that it has no 'neo' stops anywhere. That's a very good thing. I also think it is probably sensible to scale it back. 32' reeds should only be used in a room that can physically accommodate the real thing (pipe-wise and acoustically speaking).</P>


The only things I might suggest - I'd like to have an Unda Maris to match with the Dulciana.</P>


A Vox Humana would have been nice...</P>


I would move the French Horn to the Great, or at least make it playable there. Quite a few Skinners had French Horns on the Great; one benefit is that you can contrast the French Horn against the Choir color reeds.</P>


Check the spelling of Mirabilis. [:)]</P>

[steverequiem]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project

I would really take soubasse32's comments to heart.  The super-couple the Clarinet to pedal trick works very well on my Skinner, no need for an independent 4' reed in the pedal.  And I would add a knob for the French Horn on the Great but keep it playable in the choir so it's under expression.  Our Tuba plays from the Choir but the knob is on the Great, so it's pretty much exactly what Skinner was doing.  And DEFINITELY include the Unda Maris.

[soubasse32]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



[quote user="steverequiem"]And I would add a knob for the French Horn on the Great but keep it playable in the choir so it's under expression.[/quote]Right - the French Horn is playable from the Great, but would be in the Choir box. Sometimes Skinner enclosed some of the Great stops; maybe you should consider having the Great Hauptwerk stops expressed via the Choir shoe?</P>


Another question - no subs &amp; supers? Those can be very handy on a Skinner.</P>

[steverequiem]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project

Would available computing power be an issue with the subs and supers?

[Guest]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



Thanks everyone for your suggestions!</P>


I'm working on the Swell Bourdon 16' but I'm thinking of something soft that would be useful in the Pedal as well for a softer alternative to the Bourdons that will be real pipes and not under expression.</P>


I was already mulling over the idea of the Choir French Horn and/or the Tuba Marabilis available on the Great.
The French Horn (perhaps?) as an alternative to a Krummhorn (for French Baroque literature), which could be used against the Choir Cornet. I say that because I don't think the clarinet would have the strength to hold up against a full cornet when both are under the same expression pedal.
And the Tuba Mirabilis as an alternative to the non-original Trumpet En Chamade that was added to the Skinner by the Fabry Co. in 2004.</P>


Computing power is not the issue in trimming down the spec.</P>


The size of the room - and it's relatively dry acoustic is a primary issue.Even after making some acoustic changes (carpet removal and sealing some areas of cedar ship-lap where it won't be noticable) the most I can hope to acheive is probably 2 seconds.</P>


This is the reasonfor the choice of the Skinner as a sample set (more fundamental tone) and in the need to keep the spec at a minimum without giving up any of the available imitative reeds or loosing the Skinner essence.</P>


The secondary reason for keeping the spec under a certain limit is Intermodulation Distortion. The system will only be 24 channels, and I have a strict policy of 1-2 ranks per channel.</P>


The question of which child to kill is tough, but sacrifices had to be made and the Vox Humana was chosen. Also the string celeste in the Swell was chosen over the Flute celeste in the Swell.</P>


An Unda Maris would add back another celeste choice - with only adding one more rank, so I will diligently consider it.</P>


With Hauptwerk I can simply add a drawknob to the Pedal that borrows a rank from another division - at any pitch shift I chose. So a drawknob might be a cleaner solution to arrive at a 4' reed (expressive) than a super coupler.</P>


Costs are also an minor issue... each drawknow including stems and engraved heads will be at about $40. Doesn't sound like much, but the difference between my original 63 stop spec and 50 stops is significant - given all the other things which must be budgeted for, i.e. new manuals, midi pipe driver boards, Wicks magnets, chests, blower, resevoir(s), etc. etc. etc.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Skinner Opus 719 / Wicks Opus 3237 Hybrid project



Calling it done. (for now) [:)]</P>


http://zionorgan.com/HWForumImages/Z...cification.htm</P>
<P mce_keep="true">P.S. I rearranged the list just so I could more easily visualize the console.</P>