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selfmade MIDI keyboard and pedalboard (using Viscount PrestigeⅡ)

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  • selfmade MIDI keyboard and pedalboard (using Viscount PrestigeⅡ)

    I have three key board and one pedalboard that were removed from Viscount PrestigeⅡ.And I'm trying to build selfmade MIDI these keyboards and pedalboard.


    Does anyone knows informations about midi-hardware that connects between PC and these keyboards(and way to connect)? What kind of midi-hardware is available?

  • #2
    The first question would be what kind of keyboards are these? Bus style keyboards have a wire for every note and matrix style keyboards usually have 16 connections. The bus keyboard usually has a big bundle of wires (61 + ground) and the matrix keyboard usually has one or two ribbon cables. Similar questions for the pedalboard which is usually the same type as the keyboards.

    For a good affordable source of MIDI encoders look at www.midiboutique.com or www.midi-hardware.com. Midi boutique user manuals show typical wiring scenarios. I'm sure the Midi-hardware manuals do as well.
    http://www.nwmidi.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the reply.

      Sorry, these key board means three manual keyboards and pedal form Viscount PrestigeⅡ.
      Could you see the photo attached.Click image for larger version

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      And I already checked www.midi-hardware.com.
      I am not sure that these Midi-hardware directly connect viscout 's keyboards(acutually ribbon cables).
      Is that possible?


      Originally posted by John Kinkennon View Post
      The first question would be what kind of keyboards are these? Bus style keyboards have a wire for every note and matrix style keyboards usually have 16 connections. The bus keyboard usually has a big bundle of wires (61 + ground) and the matrix keyboard usually has one or two ribbon cables. Similar questions for the pedalboard which is usually the same type as the keyboards.

      For a good affordable source of MIDI encoders look at www.midiboutique.com or www.midi-hardware.com. Midi boutique user manuals show typical wiring scenarios. I'm sure the Midi-hardware manuals do as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Could you shoot a picture of the cables? Do you know the year the donor organ was made? So it's the connector on the end of the ribbon cable 2x16. You either need to hook up all the wires to a board that will turn them into a matrix or hook up your matrix keyboard to a midi board.

        My key boards were later model made to work with a matrix already. In that case it was just a matter of getting the matrix arranged in a standard form so the board would recognize it (rewire ribbon connector on the board end).

        If you know the model the keyboard came from maybe the schematic is available and then the wiring could be determined. Jordan at midiboutique took the original schematic and gave me a 'decoder' so I could re-wire it and it has worked great.

        If you keyboards are older then you have to have an additional board to make that step from key to matrix, but they have those boards as well. Can you determine what model your keyboards came from?

        Comment


        • #5
          The manuals are almost certainly 8x8 matrix connected with 16-pin (2x8) ribbon cable. It's the "almost certainly" that is the issue. A photo of the bottom side of the manuals is the key. Newer keyboards may be using flex cable which is a whole different level of complexity. Even with an 8x8 matrix there is no guarantee that the diode polarity will be what we expect. A matrix may advance the notes sequentially by column or by row as well, so I never assume compatibility with a given MIDI encoder until I've studied the keyboard closely. There are manuals available online I believe and posting a page showing the keyboard wiring would answer all of our questions.
          http://www.nwmidi.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, (2) 2x8 connectors. Somehow I turned that into (1) 2x16. Each half of the keyboard has (1) 2x8 connector going to it. Just need the secret decoder ring!

            Comment


            • #7
              That's interesting, Kenny. If there are two 16-pin ribbons, one to each half of the keyboard, then it's likely the keyboard has velocity capability. That would be common for keyboards rescued from keyboard instruments. For organs velocity is unusual but not unheard of. The normal organ manual of the matrix variety will have a single 16-pin ribbon for the entire manual. With velocity keyboards for normal encoders one gets to choose between using the upper or the lower set of contacts with the lower contacts usually producing more realistic results.
              http://www.nwmidi.com

              Comment


              • #8
                You are absolutely correct (again!). My keyboard has two little contacts for every key, so that explains double! That was, in fact the reason I went with midiboutique because it gave me the option of retaining that capability, whereas most don't. Things are getting clearer! So each of the midi boards for each keyboard has (2) 2x8 inputs. The IP wouldn't need that unless his keyboards are velocity-type.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also use one of the midi boutique velocity sensitive encoders for a 4th keyboard where I have the Pianoteq piano, and bells. It makes a nice addition, especially with three manual sample sets where the top keyboard would otherwise be wasted. The bells are either tubular bells or church bells and the Pianoteq piano sounds are incredible. Pianoteq is at www.modartt.com. No relation to them -- just a hearty recommendation from a happy user.
                  http://www.nwmidi.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for the reply.

                    Here, I attach some photos.

                    This is cable.
                    Click image for larger version

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                    This is board of manual keyboard(Maybe Fatar's keyboard).
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Board is divided two parts.
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                    This is board of pedal keyboard, also divided two parts.
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Click image for larger version

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                    My friend suggest me that it is not impossible to connect directly to MIDI-hardware.
                    He said that it is necessary that I have to rearrange those cables.
                    Is that correct?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your friend is correct. The first challenge will be to discover the way the signals are arranged on the cable. There will be 8 column driver signals and 8 row signals where the encoder reads the matrix. So we might call the columns C1 through C8 and call the rows R1 through R8. If you are fortunate enough to find a schematic then it's easy to figure this out. Otherwise you will need to discover the pinout by using a voltmeter and perhaps visually follow the traces on the circuit boards. It's helpful to find an online schematic of a typical 8x8 matrix. Set the voltmeter to its continuity setting -- look for a diode symbol or perhaps a speaker symbol on the meter. The idea is that when one key is pressed a current can flow from one row (red meter lead) through a diode to one column (black lead). Usually both row one and column one will be at the end of a connector, perhaps opposite ends, and I've never seen the rows and columns not be in sequence so once you find row 1 and column 1 for low 'C' then it gets a lot easier.

                      Let me know if you need more detail. I'll look for a good matrix example and add it to this post.

                      EDIT: Sorry, I'm out of "Attachment Storage" on this site. I found an excellent drawing and will try to get it on my site later and provide a link here.
                      Last edited by John Kinkennon; 04-15-2018, 10:33 AM.
                      http://www.nwmidi.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The 8x8 matrix I promised to post:

                        Click image for larger version

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                        In looking through internet images I had trouble finding something this simple, yet complete for an 8x8 keyboard matrix. There are, of course, variations where the diodes are reversed or the notes sequence along rows rather than columns, but this seems to be the most common version.

                        In a typical configuration the rows have pullup resistors of 4.7 to 10k ohms. The Columns are normally high. One column is driven low at a time and the processor IC reads the values of the rows where any row pulled to a low logic level indicates a key closed (down) at that point on the matrix.
                        http://www.nwmidi.com

                        Comment

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