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  • tbeck
    replied
    Originally posted by e9925248 View Post
    HW has a "simple" XML format for building (Custom Organ Design Module) as well as the full featured format. The full format can be "compressed" (options are named a, b, c, d, e, ....) or with readable option names. The format is structured like a relational database with numerical primary keys and references to them.

    CODM documentation is available on their web page - I have heard rumors, that the full format documentation is only available at request under special conditions.

    A GO ODF can be a HW1 format [some options are reported as unused] and you can start using newer GO features for just the situations, where you need more features (eg. multiple releases, graphics, ..).
    Thanks for that information. I've been unable to follow the keys in the full format since I don't know the entity relationships. I suppose I could parse it with sufficient patience, but it doesn't seem worth the effort. The only information I've looked for is for maxkeypresstimes.

    The sample sets from Piotr Grabowski don't use the exact same keypresstimes that correspond to the length of the samples denoted by the path names for the releases. I understand that the sample sets from Sonus Paradisi also do not correspond exactly. Since I'm making composite sets from the various free demos from SP, I wanted to see if I could more closely match the value for the maxkeypresstime. As it is now, my sample sets use the exact same values as specified in the paths. I'm not sure if it makes a great deal of difference.

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  • e9925248
    replied
    HW has a "simple" XML format for building (Custom Organ Design Module) as well as the full featured format. The full format can be "compressed" (options are named a, b, c, d, e, ....) or with readable option names. The format is structured like a relational database with numerical primary keys and references to them.

    CODM documentation is available on their web page - I have heard rumors, that the full format documentation is only available at request under special conditions.

    A GO ODF can be a HW1 format [some options are reported as unused] and you can start using newer GO features for just the situations, where you need more features (eg. multiple releases, graphics, ..).

    Leave a comment:


  • tbeck
    replied
    I haven't worked with HW ODFs. They are in XML format. I've looked at a couple in order to check release keypress timing and I haven't been able to parse them. The GrandOrgue ODF is a structured text file.

    I believe HW sells a program which allows a user to manipulate the ODF but I don't know anything about it. There are probably others here who can provide more info.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    Is Grandorgur odf easier than Hauptwerk odf?

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  • tbeck
    replied
    Johnallen, you can look at the ODF for the demo organ that downloads with GrandOrgue. There is also a help file. In my case, I had to experiment quite a bit to see the effect of changes that I made in the ODF. It's a bit like hacking. But eventually, if you refer to a well made ODF along with the help file, it makes sense.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    I tried odf file once but did not understand what to put where

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  • tbeck
    replied
    The organ definition file (ODF) used by GrandOrgue is a text file. So I didn't use any specialized software to create the ODF.

    The ODF is structured and is composed of several different elements, e.g., organ, manuals, windchests, tremulants, couplers, stops, ranks, etc. I have several different templates that I use. I start with a basic template containing thee manuals, pedals, approximately 25 stops, and standard couplers. Since my console only has two manuals, one of the manuals is a "floating" manual, and I have set up couplers which allow me to couple the floating division to either manual, or replace the ODF manual assigned to a keyboard.

    I have also written some quick and dirty python scripts to help me create the rank objects. Depending on the samples, there can be several attacks and/or releases for each pipe, as well as tremmed samples with attacks and releases. One of the sample sets I use has 17 lines for each pipe. The ODF consists of over 30,000 lines. Using templates, its possible to create the rank objects using global search and replace in a text editor, but it is pretty tedious. I use the python scripts to set up the rank objects in batches.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    May I ask what software you use to create composite sample?

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  • tbeck
    replied
    Perhaps I should just think of it as a "generic" cathedral sample set. My experience is also not sufficient. However, I wanted to play a verse with a big solo reed playing the melody in the tenor and I wanted it to sound like a big English tuba, but I couldn't really make it work. If I played some of the solo reeds, I think it would be more obvious this wasn't an English organ. But, I also think the ensemble kind of works.

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  • jbird604
    replied
    I guess I thought it sounded English because England is the only country where I've heard the cathedral organs, and these being wet samples, they sound like they're playing in a cathedral. That's how limited my experience is with European organ sound!

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  • voet
    replied
    Thank you so much for sharing this, Tbeck. It is remarkable how English the sound is on your recording considering the origin of these stops.

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  • tbeck
    replied
    John, the names are confusing, but each is a separate register. They are all from the "Hoofdwerk" division of the Magnussen organ in Laurenskerk, Rotterdam. This is a straight, non-unified instrument, except for the borrowings, which are indicated.

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Quite an interesting disposition, even if the stops are from varied sources. You certainly have the full range of tone colors covered. I do have to wonder about the use of an "Octaaf" sample apparently for 8', 4', and 2' members of the great principal chorus. Was this a unit rank in the original organ? Or are they all three different but just named the same? I have to assume that this idea works out well, judging by the lovely sounds I hear on your recording. It's just a bit unusual to see that.

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  • tbeck
    replied
    Here's the stop list for the composite organ. The sources sample sets are: Piotr Graboswki, Friesach (F), Sonus Paradisi Rotterdam (R) and Goerlitz (G).

    As you can see from the nomenclature, it is a bit of an eclectic mess. I wasn't sure what to do about the division names, so I just switched them to English. The choir mixture is from Grabosowki's Dluga Koscielna sample set. The cornet is derived from the choir. My console only has two manuals, so the Choir and Solo are both floating manuals. I added some switches to the console that easily allow those floating manuals to be either coupled to the two manuals, or be played exclusively on the manuals. The tremulants are synthetic, except for the Kromhoorn and Englisch Horn, which use sampled tremulants.

    Click image for larger version

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Good guess, but I don't think so. He's a real artist with the voicing and this is just one of the tricks he employs to make his voicing jobs sound more "authentic" I suppose. The logic being that "pipe organs are always out of tune a little bit." And his mixtures are certainly not "sour" just obviously distinct. It lets you know right away that this is no unit organ or old-fashioned lock-step digital system!

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