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  • Roland AT75 & AT80SL Pricing

    I'm looking at two very different Rolands to possibly add one of them to my organ collection. However I'm not sure what value they have so I need a little guidelines on pricing of these two in the US. Both are used and both are in excellent condition and are at a local dealer's store.

    thanks
    Lloyd
    Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

  • #2
    For info, the local dealer is asking $12K for the 80SL and I'm almost sure that is way out of whack. It is on consignment from an woman that has developed crippling arthritis in her hands and he indicated she would probably come down. It would be my second choice assuming I could make a counter offer and get it accepted though I don't need another full console. But it sure is sweet!

    The AT75 has an asking price of $3k and is also on consignment from an individual. Although it is hard to find any pricing on this one, I did find a dealer willing to sell one for about $1500 and I might consider getting the one local for that price. Even though the 75 isn't as slick as the 80SL it sounds amazingly good. Like the 80SL it also has physical drawbars though in the case of the 75 you have to assign them to upper/lower/pedals as they are 'shared'. It also is smaller which would fit in the space I would want a 2nd organ to go.

    I also considered a keyboard. Noticed a nice Yamaha MOX8 locally but I don't know exactly what it is. Can it be used as a 'normal' keyboard that has rhythms and 'songs' and so forth, or do you have to do it all manually?

    Actually I don't "need" another organ, but what the hell... :)
    Lloyd
    Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

    Comment


    • #3
      $12K is certainly way out of whack. Divide by 2? And I think $3K for the AT75 is high too, but you're talking 1) sellers who have no idea of the market and 'must have' $X for their pride and joy and 2) a dealer who will also want to make some $$$ on it. Even Royal Music, who can be expensive, are only asking a $1899 'buy it now' price on ebay. As a private sale, I think maybe that divide by 2 would apply.

      The little Rolands have good sounds but are pigs to drive on the fly. Tiny screen and way too much button pushing means you have to set up sounds in advance but the AT75 only has 4 presets, not enough. AT100 or AT300 is as small as you should go, and they are still pigs to drive for the same reason.

      An 80SL at a keen price is a great instrument. Orchestrally, it will beat the Palladium with ease and its organ sounds will match it. Would be interesting to connect the two organs together and drive the Roland from the Lowrey, I'd think that you'd get the sounds across the whole compass of the keys and pedals.

      The MOX8 is a synthesizer. Not what you're after at all. most likely.
      It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

      New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

      Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
      Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
      Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
      Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm thinking 1/2 price offers are more in line with what I'm seeing. I suspect that either unit would sell for that though it might take some time for the actual owner to realize their asking prices are nutty.

        I'm confused by your connecting 2 organs together and using the palladium to drive the Lowrey. That makes sense for the AT75 since it has fewer pedals and keys, but I don't see an advantage with the 80SL. The hardest part of doing that with the Lowrey is the paucity of documentation about their MIDI implementation. I even talked to Lowrey about it quite awhile back and just wouldn't give up the info. I know sending keystrokes wouldn't be an issue since I've done that with the BK7M, but most everything else, like on the fly registration changes are really a crap shoot as best I remember.
        Lloyd
        Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

        Comment


        • #5
          You'd have 25 radiating pedals to play with and a conventional 61 note upper. Just occasionally I wish that Roland had extended the upper manual down that extra octave on the 90 and 900 series. Just occasionally I go above the to C of a 61 note manual, but I'd rather have had the lower end. Having said that, the extra range on the lower manual worth its weight in gold.

          If it's anything like to Kawais from which it derived, the Palladium will be basic on MIDI. Key on/off, velocity and perhaps some Programme Change messages from the User presets. Only issue is that I've not been able to get the Roland to respond to programme change messages the way I want, ie switching between the 12 preset pistons. Pressing those same pistons will transmit programme changes but not the other way round, it would seem. :(
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Trying to remember how the bk7m worked with the Palladium it seems that keys and pedals were fine, and I even figured out how to do keyboard split on the lower. But if I hit any preset buttons the results were, well let's say interesting. In fact I think I had to fiddle with the bk7m to make it ignore that signal since it really wasn't of value.

            assuming I can get either for 1/2 price, I suppose I now need to figure out if I want to spend $6K! :)
            Lloyd
            Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

            Comment


            • #7
              Lloyd,

              I own a Roland AT-90, the first-generation of the Atelier. It is a fantastic organ. It has great classical and theatre sounds as well as Lowrey- and Hammond-style flutes. The symphonic voices (strings, choirs, etc.), orchestral voices (non-string), and solo voices are wonderful as well.

              However, there is one thing that I do not like about the Roland. While the all the voices are good, when the organ sounds and orchestral (non-string) voices are mixed, they do not blend well together. My playing style is more "old school." I miss having the old home organ reed stops similar the the older Lowreys, Yamahas, Thomases, etc. I know Andy has used some of the classical and maybe theatre voices to recreate that sound with his AT-900. Unfortunately, my AT-90 does not have nearly as many of those voices as Andy's AT-900. This "limitation" may not be an issue with you depending on your playing and registration style.

              I have very little experience with newer Lowreys. I have played a Majesty a couple of times that is in a local funeral home. However, I have heard Andy mention that while the orchestral sounds on the Lowreys are not as realistic as on the Roland, they do blend better with the traditional organ sounds. In that area, I think I might prefer a Lowrey over my Roland.

              Oh, on my YouTube channel (see my signature for the link), I have about 20 videos of public domain music that I performed on the Roland AT-90.

              Later,
              Allen
              Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

              YouTube Channel

              Comment


              • #8
                There was a period where Lowrey and Hammond in particular chose not to go all out for 100% accuracy on their orchestral sounds, preferring to provide sounds that did blend well with the flutes or drawbars. Shades of the older analogue days.

                Lowrey were criticised for this during the time I was with them (1989-1995) and responded with more accurate sounds. They got criticised by some for doing that, too! Subsequent model series have seen progressively better orchestral sounds, taken from the massive sound palette that Kawai have available, and edited to 'fit' the Lowrey range. Now I've not had a chance to try a recent Lowrey but I expect it will now 'suffer', if that's the right word, from the non-blending issue too.

                Good news is that there are, if you look them out, lots of 'not quite so accurate' sounds in the AT80SL palette, that will mix OK. You could try synth strings and synth brass, for example, instead of the 'prime' strings and brass voices. Allen is right about the solo organ voices not being there on the older models, but the 80SL has quite a few. You can use the Theatre solo sounds along with the flutes and drawbars but the 800/900 and Platinums take that to the extreme and to get some of my psuedo Thomas and Baldwin sounds, I'm using their classical voices - probably not the intention that Hector Olivera had in mind when he specified them. Though there again, knowing Hector, maybe he did think that way!
                It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Allen,
                  While Lowrey definitely has a ton of push button settings similar to those on other organs, it also has a slew of "tab stops" for those classic organ sounds from days gone by. The Palladium, like all the top-of-line limited production models has all that Lowrey had to offer when it was produced. So I can use the 'classic' tab stops, I can and do mix in selected other voices. There are almost an overwhelming number of voices that can be picked from, as well as tons of 'styles' for use.

                  And almost all of them can be modified to a great extent though it is tedious and daunting to do since you have to do them on the organ as Lowrey either doesn't have, or won't provide, computer software to accomplish it. I even started a thread on doing some of that years ago in the Lower forum but found little interest.

                  Since I've gotten this bug to add to my small collection, I find myself wondering if getting a good keyboard and piping the output to the Lower. The Palladium has audio in/out, stereo or mono and is probably better overall in sound reproduction than many speaker setups would be. I mean with plenty of power and 19 speakers there's got to be some sense of the practicicality of doing that, and it is somewhat cheaper and certainly smaller.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by andyg View Post
                  Lowrey were criticised for this during the time I was with them (1989-1995) and responded with more accurate sounds. They got criticised by some for doing that, too! Subsequent model series have seen progressively better orchestral sounds, taken from the massive sound palette that Kawai have available, and edited to 'fit' the Lowrey range. Now I've not had a chance to try a recent Lowrey but I expect it will now 'suffer', if that's the right word, from the non-blending issue too.
                  I've played the Sterling, which I think was the next model after the SU series, not sure though. I didn't notice a significant difference between it and my Palladium except for the "more Lowrey" effect. :) I know that on the Palladium which I think is circa 2005, the 'blending' of sounds seems pretty spot on though there are some voicings I don't care for.
                  Lloyd
                  Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just noticed that there is a Roland AT-90S for sale here in the classifieds. Unfortunately it is from a poster with only that post. :(

                    Did some measuring and I would have to juggle some things to get an AT-80/90 in the room. :(
                    Lloyd
                    Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lloyd,

                      Originally posted by lparsons21 View Post
                      Allen,
                      While Lowrey definitely has a ton of push button settings similar to those on other organs, it also has a slew of "tab stops" for those classic organ sounds from days gone by. . . .
                      My AT-90 has the nine pitches 16' through 1' on buttons for both the upper and lower manual (a separate set for each manual). There are buttons that allow them to be Flute1 (Lowrey), Flute2 (Hammond), Pipe (classical/diapason), and Theatre (tibia). In addition, there is an "Others Preset" button that automatically selects appropriate sounds for the "Others" buttons in the organ, symphonic, and orchestral sections. This gives a total of 6 other stops to use with the classical and Theater sounds since each button has an alternate sound. (For the Flute1 and Flute2, the Others Preset button either selects sound corresponding to the title of the section for Flute1 and various "pop" organ ensembles for Flute2.) Using just the footage buttons and the Others buttons you can hand-register the organ pretty effectively for classical and theatre music. With the touch-screen technology of the later Rolands, the others preset button is no longer there. It is probably easier to customize the sounds with the touch screen. Also, I believe there are banks of registrations by the likes of Hector Olivera in the later instruments categorized by genre.

                      Just wanted to give you a little background on the first-generation Ateliers.

                      Oh, I really only play about the first octave of pedals. However, the only one of the first-generation of Ateliers with footage buttons was the AT-90 console. The AT-80 only had the "presets" like Full Organ 1, Pipe 3, Jazz 2, Theatre 5, etc. The presence of the footage buttons was the reason I choose the AT-90 over the AT-80.

                      Later,
                      Allen

                      P.S. If you would like to see close up photos of the layout of the AT-90, just let me know, and I'll post them in my gallery.
                      Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

                      YouTube Channel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Allen,
                        Like you, if I play the pedals at all, it is only the first octave. Most of the time I don't play the pedals at all, just use the automatics and let 'er rip! :)

                        I need another organ like I need another hole in my head, but I've been doing some research since I have the bug yet again. The AT80SL would be the cat's meow, but assuming I could get them to take $6K instead of the $12K they want, that's more money than I want to spend. And as I noted while playing most of yesterday, I generally don't need 61 keys either. If I was going to spend that much I'd get the AT800 on Ebay for about $4700 and figure $1k to get it to me. The advantage of the 80SL is that I can actually put my hands on it and ensure all is working right.

                        Which leads me to think that there are two scenarios for me to consider:
                        Scenario #1 - Don't buy anything and just connect my BK-7M backing module to the Palladium. That picks up lots of Roland sounds/rhythms but is awkward to use with an organ, especially one as big as the Palladium.
                        Scenario #2 - get a smaller spinet that has audio and midi connections and use the BK-7M with it instead. ie; get the AT-75 if they'll sell it @$1500. Less awkward to use the BK-7M because of physical size and the smaller spinet would fit the space I have better.
                        Lloyd
                        Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lloyd and others,

                          I took photos of the controls of the Atelier AT-90. They are an album in my gallery at http://www.organforum.com/gallery/th....php?album=404.

                          Later,
                          Allen
                          Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

                          YouTube Channel

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by afuller5 View Post
                            Lloyd and others,

                            I took photos of the controls of the Atelier AT-90. They are an album in my gallery at http://www.organforum.com/gallery/th....php?album=404.

                            Later,
                            Allen
                            So the 90 doesn't have the touch screen, I guess that was the major operational upgrade when they brought out the 90S.

                            Not a bad layout overall. The Palladium and other Lowreys use old style tabs for the organ flute/strings laid out across the front just above the upper keyboard. The newer ones use push buttons.

                            My impression of most of the more modern Japanese organs was that you set up different settings and saved them into pistons and use those piston presets as you progress in playing. While I tend not to do that, I can see the value in it.

                            Thanks for the pics!
                            Lloyd
                            Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lloyd,

                              The AT-90 and AT-90R only had the two-line LCD display. The touchscreen was introduced with the AT-90S. From my understanding, the touchscreen makes it much easier to selected different voices while you are playing. (I have never played an Atelier with a touchscreen. In fact, I have only played mine and an AT-80 at the store where I purchased mine.) On the AT-90, to get voices that do not have a dedicated button, you have assign them to an Others button before playing. You actually have to scroll through the list on the small LCD screen. I employ several ways of registering the instrument. They are summarized below.
                              • When playing for my own enjoyment, I just selected the voices or use footage tabs to get various flute pitched.
                              • I actually have two pistons set up: one to setup pipe/classical organ with appropriate selections on the Others buttons and the other with theatre organ with appropriate selection for the Others buttons. When I am practicing for church, I use the pipe set up and hand register. Many times when I'm playing older music for my own enjoyment, I do the same with the theatre set up. The Others buttons serve as stops in this case.
                              • When I make arrangements and record on YouTube, I usually set up my registrations in the pistons (unless it is just adding or removing a voice). Several years ago a did a few musical programs for the senior citizens group of my church. I also used the pistons then and had a separate registration on disk for each piece of music.


                              I just uploaded a voice list for the AT-90 in the album. (It may take a few hours for approval.) The voice list is one that I typed shortly after I bought the AT-90. In the Owner's Manual, the voices are arranged in numerical order, and voices that belong in the same category (e.g., organ, string, brass, percussion, etc.) are not always grouped together. So, I categorized it to facility finding the number of a particular voice so that I would how far I need to scroll to access it.

                              Later,
                              Allen
                              Currently own: Roland Atelier AT-90, Yamaha 115D, Roland DP-90SE, Yamaha PSR-S910

                              YouTube Channel

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