Rodgers T927LT Help

[Ellis]

Greetings, I'm trying to get info on how to get a line out from the Rodgers T927LT. We can run it thru a DI box, then yo the mixing console. All the lines going to the amp(s) work fine, but we need a separate line going to the mixer for recording/broadcast. There's a box underneath the right side of the keyboard with R & L 1/4” outs. Can I use those? Should sum them to mono?

We can talk to the sales tech eventually, but I'd like to wrap this up if I can.

Sorry for the newbieness.

[jbird604]

It's ok to be a newb. We all started out that way! Welcome to the forum.

Those 1/4" outputs are the only ones available to you, so yes, you can use those for recording or broadcast. I won't even wade into all the negatives of using those line outs -- it's a topic that's been hashed out thoroughly here. Suffice it to say that you won't cause (much) trouble if you truly use that signal ONLY for broadcast and/or recording, and ONLY to supplement whatever you can pick up with the choir mikes or any other open mikes. Please do NOT allow any of that line out signal to get into the house sound system where it will be heard by your worshippers. They need to hear the organ only through it's own speakers, for too many musical reasons for me to get into now.

The "raw" signal coming from those outputs is not really "organ sound" because "organ sound" is a complex mix of direct and reflected sound that a listener hears and enjoys in a lively acoustic space when the organ has been properly installed so that the sound bounces off as many hard surfaces as possible. Straight out of the jack digital organ sound is often harsh and unpleasant, so we try to use the speakers to make it "bloom" in the room. Thus, people hearing your recording or broadcast will be hearing only a semblance "organ" tone, completely devoid of the bloom, thus possibly not very pleasant.

But I hear this request fairly often. These days, many churches are recording and/or broadcasting, and they often tell me that the microphones do not pick up enough of the organ sound. It is admittedly difficult to mike an organ because the sound isn't a point source at all, but rather a massive all-over-the-room acoustical effect that simply defies being convincingly picked up by microphones, whether omni or directional doesn't seem to make much difference.

As to mixing it to mono for the broadcast, yes, if you only record and broadcast in mono, then mix it down. But that too takes away some of the intended beauty of the tone. Certain stops have different components that are intentionally sent out on separate channels so they can mix acoustically. For example, the celeste stops have a "sharp" and a "flat" tone for each note, and they sound best when separately projected into the room. If you can record in stereo, then put the two outputs into separate channels. But if not, it will do in a pinch.

Good luck! And come back with any other questions you may have.

[myorgan]

ONLY to supplement whatever you can pick up with the choir mikes or any other open mikes....
[snip]
It is admittedly difficult to mike an organ because the sound isn't a point source at all,....

Actually, John, I am a single sound source, as I don't have a split personality.;-)

Isn't the abbreviation for microphone-mic rather than mike? I'm tired of picking up everything for everyone-I quit!

Michael (Mike)

P.S. John is giving you good advice about picking up the sound from the organ.

[Ellis]

Thank you so much for the in-depth and prompt reply. That all makes perfect sense, although unfortunate. But, in close proximity to the organ speaker are hanging stage mics that are rarely used. They are Audio-Technica U853R Cardioid Condenser Hanging Microphones. It seem like I could just use those (maybe adjust the direction a bit and problem solved!?. Would these mics be “okay” for this? It's really for CD recording of the service for shut-ins I believe, nothing too demanding.

let me know what you think about it. And thanks again!

[jbird604]

Every situation is different, so try the mikes and see how it sounds. A problem that sometimes arises from microphones too near the organ speakers is that they will pick up some channels and not others. Your 927 was installed with at least 8 discrete channels of audio -- essentially a stereo pair for each of the three keyboards + two more for the bass. So a pair of mikes placed near the chamber might be inclined to get too much of some voices and not enough of others. But then again, you might get a fairly pleasant blend.

If you add some reverb to the sound you take from the line outs, that might help somewhat, at least make the recording easier to listen to. Try not to overdo that, but it would sort of "level the playing field" since other sounds that you are mixing into the CD will have some natural reverb from the room, but the organ will be very raw.

Bottom line -- it won't hurt to try several different methods, or combinations thereof.

[Ellis]

Got it, and thanks. Will give it a try.

[Ellis]

Oh, one last thing if you'd be so kind. Are the 1/4” aux outs TRS or TS? The connector that's there is TRS, but I don't trust anything at this point.

[jbird604]

Ordinary mono 1/4" jacks, TS, unbalanced.

[Ellis]

The aux outa say “Left (mono)“ and “Right (mono)” . Does that mean both each are summed mono if only one is use, or neither are summed? Usually keyboards have a single dedicated summed mono jack.

[jbird604]

Not certain, but it's possible that one or both will give you a mono mix if used alone. You can try it and see. Have the organist register the Viola and Viola celeste on the swell division, and then listen to the signal you are getting from just one jack. (Ignoring for the time the sound coming from the organ speakers themselves.) You should hear the gentle "undulation" produced when those two stops are drawn together. You can also simply check to see if EACH of those two stops is coming at equal level from whichever jack you are testing. If both those stops produce output from the "left/mono" jack, and at about the same level, and you clearly hear the undulation, you can be sure that the signal is already summed. I suspect that you will get a summed mono signal, at least from just the left jack as long as nothing is plugged into the right jack.

[myorgan]

Ellis,

In most electronic audio devices I've seen, the Left connector will generally provide a Mono output.

Michael

[Ellis]

Perfect! I had no idea how to test that, and not sure if the organist would have known either.

[jbird604]

Separating the Viola and the Viola Celeste into two channels is just one of the vast number of ways an organ like that projects separate aspects of the organ tone into the room. While this is nowhere near the way a pipe organ (with perhaps thousands of individual pipes) can project into a room, having 8 discrete audio channels like that Rodgers does give a much more realistic and pleasurable presentation of organ tone than you'd get from a mono mix of the whole thing. This is just one of several reasons why here on this forum you'll find many of us railing against the very idea of running the organ into a sound system.

As long as you NEVER let the organ sound come out of the house mains or monitors, so that everybody in the sanctuary is hearing the organ via its own speakers, there is no harm in using the line outs for recording or broadcast.