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Allen Custom ADC Organ 5 manuals 7 divisions 154 speakers 7600 watts

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    #31
    Originally posted by radagast View Post
    Good point. I wonder what is the best way to provide adequate ventilation and yet protect from dust, which is certainly bad for electronic components.
    Radagast,

    Thank you for moving the conversation forward. You asked an essential question: Should there be some sort of fan to facilitate air movement through the console, and/or what sort of material will allow air to move through the console without a payload of dust (i.e. a filter, of sorts)?

    I look forward to learning the results.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

    Comment


      #32
      Mr. Admin, I am not a Walker rep. I'm simply a personal friend of his who speaks with him on a weekly basis about how things are going in general and he keeps me up to date on his current projects. What I am telling this forum is what I was told directly from him on this subject. We all know that heat is the enemy of electronic components so its completely logical and reasonable to believe that these boards have begun to fail after around 25-30 years depending on time of use etc. This organ probably got more use than some others because of the location and number of services it had to play each week so I can easily see how this adds up to component failure after this much time. Also remember that the organ wasn't running 24/7 like computers do, it got shut down after an hour or so of a church service so it got time to cool off before the next service (if there was one) or until next Sunday or a midweek service. Now, were their other factors at play, possibly but none that were reported to me when I questioned Mr. Walker about it and his professional opinion as someone who is a technician, voicer, and engineer of electronic organs by trade for over 35 years is that the heat that these TT-4 boards were generating (and how they were encased) was the cause of their failure. I am simply the messenger and am stating what he told me and have never known him to be dishonest. Quite the opposite if fact.
      No hard feelings I hope but I wanted to clear the air of this.

      Comment


      • myorgan
        myorgan commented
        Editing a comment
        And thank you for doing so. It has been quite informative.

        Again, I ask Radagast's question, is there some way to install a fan on the internals and/or vent the cages without introducing dust and other contaminants into the system? As the owner of several ADC organs, I want to be sure mine are adequately ventilated.

        One is a double-cage organ with the cages inside the organ (amplifiers outside) while the others have everything inside the console.

        Michael

      • michaelhoddy
        michaelhoddy commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I would imagine that Bob Walker probably has had his hands on more TT-4 custom Allen installations than most Allen personnel, save the few from the factory that built them, given that the class of organs he builds are in the same general strata of customization, scope, and overall quality, so he ends up replacing a greater percentage of them.

        In my industry, we use metal equipment racks with heat-producing components like amps in them, and have to pay close attention to ventilation flows and patterns. It always struck me odd that the big TT-4 organs had all those electronics in closed wooden cabinets with the heat-producing amplifiers on the bottom!

        Most of the big ADCs I've seen that have a remote amp rack of similar size have both sides of the rack opened up for ventilation. Probably not enough of the big custom TT-4s were built for all these issues to be worked out entirely. Of course the more numerous smaller customs and Classic I's had less tone generation boards and had them in the console, so less of an issue in all likelihood.

        Even the mighty Allen is not immune to lapses of engineering judgement over the long life of their products, as anyone who's had to replace a capture or Alterable board battery can attest.

      • beel m
        beel m commented
        Editing a comment
        Bob Walker *does* go way back. I'm pretty sure I remember him doing the 32' pedal stops at Abington Presbyterian....in 1969! (I was a senior in HS and knew their then-organist)

      #33
      Walker has one unquestioned advantage too over Allen -- that of being a relatively small company. While I have only seen a handful of organs from Walker, it appeared that each one was installed and finished with the utmost attention to every detail. No shortcuts, nothing overlooked due to hurry or fear of losing the sale or offending the purchaser.

      I have always felt that both Allen and Rodgers (and perhaps other big builders as well) were sometimes ill-served because of the size and the volume of their output. Because Allen traditionally sold so many organs (though sadly the numbers are sharply down, as we all well know), it was impossible for the factory to do every installation, or even to oversee them all. Thus the need for a "dealer network" to take care of the sales, design of the installations, the execution of the plan, the final voicing.

      While most dealers have surely been competent, I have run across a good number of installations that were not up to snuff, and by a long shot. I won't attempt to catalog some of the egregious errors I have seen, but suffice it to say that some Allen setups simply don't sound or perform nearly as well as they should due to lack of knowledge, skill, or diligence on the part of dealers and/or their techs/installers.

      Large TT-4 organs like Johnson Ferry surely got the factory's full attention, and all the details must surely have been thought through and done right. But many other large organs (whether analog, MOS, ADC, MDS, or modern) obviously did not get that kind of attention to detail. It would be a good idea for EVERY owner or caretaker of an electronic organ to look things over well, to bring in an experienced and knowledgeable tech, to make sure that mistakes were not made in the setup, and that the organ is installed with optimum sound and performance AND long life all considered.
      John
      ----------
      Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
      Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
      Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
      Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

      Comment


        #34
        Thread is now closed–it has run its course. Should people wish to use the Forum to continue an old conversation to re-hash old conflicts, please either take it outside the Forum, or start a thread in the Grease Pit or Blower Room where it belongs.

        Further, you should discontinue hijacking Allen (or other open threads) to discuss off-topic brands (i.e. Viscount, Ahlborn, Conn, Johannus, etc.). The merits of each brand should be enough to fill a separate thread for each brand.

        Michael–Moderator
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

        Comment

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