Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A or F# in a Bach piece

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    A or F# in a Bach piece

    Hello out there, I'm currently learning the Bach Toccata and Fugue in F major (BWV 540). At the end of the first pedal solo my edition has three notes from the end an A but the youtube videos I've seen show very accomplished organists playing an F# there. What's going on? Bless

    #2
    Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



    Not totally sure what notes your edition has, but you can find the old Bachgesellschaft edition here: http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/6/6b/IMSLP01325-BWV0540.pdf</p>

    This is the version I know.</p>

    Comment


      #3
      Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



      [quote user="David Christeson"]Hello out there, I'm currently learning the Bach Toccata and Fugue in F major (BWV 540). At the end of the first pedal solo my edition has three notes from the end an A but the youtube videos I've seen show very accomplished organists playing an F# there. What's going on? Bless[/quote]</P>


      Hi David. Great piece that you've chosen. What edition are you using?</P>

      Comment


        #4
        Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

        I'm using an internet edition that's similar to Mutopia but this one I can't recall where I got it. Iooked at the Bachgesellschaft version and it shows an A, just like mine. This may be one of those artistic freedom things like playing a G-minor chord at the end of the Fantasia and Fugue in G-minor. I just don't want to be hunted down by the purists. Does playing all toes count?

        Comment


          #5
          Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

          The last three pedal notes of the first pedal solo in my copy are A F# G. Is it possible that the organist you observed accidentally (no pun intended) played F# F# G instead of A F# G?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

            No sir, different artists are playing A F# G, just as in your copy. So who's right? Bachgesellschaft/IMSLP says C A G, low C, my unattributable internet thingy says C A G, low C, lots of artists I respect like Walcha and Rogg have that F# in there, I'm just worried about it because everywhere else in Bach's music if you don't play exactly what's written it doesn't sound like his style. Bless

            Comment


              #7
              Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



              I have the Barenreiter [Neue Bach-Ausgabe] and the Peters [Griepenkerl] editions. Both end the first pedal solo with A | F# G | low C.</P>


              The C A G, low Cversion seems quite off track.</P>

              Comment


                #8
                Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

                I am very grateful to all of you who wrote in to help clear this up. The more information I get, the better player I'll be. Now where's that pen?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

                  [quote user="regeron"]


                  I have the Barenreiter [Neue Bach-Ausgabe] and the Peters [Griepenkerl] editions. Both end the first pedal solo with A | F# G | low C.</P>


                  The C A G, low Cversion seems quite off track.</P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  Yes, mine also ends in low C. Sorry, I was so focused on those other three notes that I failed to notice it down there at the end.</P>

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



                    There is no autograph manuscript so presumably the two versions are from different sources.(Does NBA not give details of the source they've used? I haven't got this edition.)</p>

                    In which case there is no "correct reading", Play the version you prefer. If any "purist" complains tell them they don't know what they're talking about.</p>

                    (I've always played the version without the F#, but may now change as I rather like the other version!)</p>

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: A or F# in a Bach piece

                      Thanks P.D., the F# seems more appropriate, but now I have to figure out how to squeeze an extra 16th note in that measure. I need to kick down for the Peters, plus it adds a certain legitimacy to the music rack that printer paper doesn't.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



                        [quote user="David Christeson"]Thanks P.D., the F# seems more appropriate, but now I have to figure out how to squeeze an extra 16th note in that measure. I need to kick down for the Peters, plus it adds a certain legitimacy to the music rack that printer paper doesn't.[/quote]</P>


                        This is getting more and more puzzling. Is there any way you can provide a pic of those measures? You shouldn't have to SQUEEZE any 16th notes in.</P>


                        My editions have A G A F# C A | F# G | low C --- 6 16th's | 8th quarter | 8th. I will see if I can take a pic and upload it - never done that here before - but a picture is worth a thousand words.</P>

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



                          Okay, what I've got is 6 16th's Eb D Eb Bnat C A; next measure A G A F# C A; next measure one quarter note G, eighth rest; last measure low C</p>

                          rest rest. You can see it on Peterboroughdiapason's link to the Bachgesellschaft edition on the ISML site.</p>

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



                            correction: IMSLP site. oops. However, I did find a Peters version albeit heavily highlighted and notated at</p>

                            www.jbu.edu/academics/journal/2009/files/chriseads.pdf.</p>

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: A or F# in a Bach piece



                              The Bach-Gesellschaft edition of this pieceappears to have been published in 1867, with Wilhelm Rust as editor. See http://www.npj.com/bach/BG.html Band 15 [Volume 15]</P>


                              According to Wikipedia's article on the B-G:</P>
                              <BLOCKQUOTE>


                              "The volumes varied somewhat in editorial quality and accuracy; Bach scholar Hans T. David particularly criticized Vol. 31's presentation of <FONT color=#002bb8>The Musical Offering</FONT> for numerous incorrect readings,<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-david_6-0><FONT color=#002bb8><SPAN>[</SPAN>7<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></SUP> and the <FONT color=#002bb8>1911 Encyclopedia Britannica</FONT> calls the edition as a whole "of very unequal merit." Britannica both lauds the editing of <FONT color=#002bb8>Wilhelm Rust</FONT> for the edition and notes a deterioration of standards after his death, including a volume in which "the bass and violin are a bar apart for a whole line" (apparently a reference to sloppy editing).<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-ref1911_7-0><FONT color=#002bb8><SPAN>[</SPAN>8<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></SUP> In his edition of the <FONT color=#002bb8>Goldberg Variations</FONT>, <FONT color=#002bb8>Ralph Kirkpatrick</FONT> also calls attention to several "mistakes of the Bachgesellschaft edition" that he has corrected, particularly with regard to the presentation of <FONT color=#002bb8>ornaments</FONT>.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-kirk_8-0><FONT color=#002bb8><SPAN>[</SPAN>9<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></SUP> (It is worth noting that the Bach-Gesellschaft volume containing the Goldbergs was one of the first to be published--Vol. 3, which appeared in 1853.)</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              <BLOCKQUOTE>


                              However, the Bach-Gesellschaft's volumes were a groundbreaking achievement and contributed greatly to the study of, and appreciation of, Bach's music. They remained the standard edition of Bach's complete works until the publication of the <FONT color=#002bb8>Neue Bach-Ausgabe</FONT>, begun in 1954 and published by ."</P></BLOCKQUOTE>


                              With recent scholarship, and the fact that these people really do live and breath Bach, I'd be tempted to put my trust in the NBA [Neue Bach-Ausgabe].</P>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X