Does Toccata and Fugue in D Minor Still Seem Years Away? This May Help

[ButterFingers]

After Years of Playing Does Toccata and Fugue in D Minor still seem Years Away? This May Help:-B

26 Years ago I started playing Piano after years of playing Lead Guitar. My Musical tastes changed to Classical, so after deciding on buying a Piano I bought basic starter books, as well as low grade Associated Board books to learn from. After months of learning scales off by heart and taking piano lessons, the music I wanted to play was years away. So, initially I bought a copy of The Moonlight Sonata by Beethoven and slowly penciled in the notes and started to practice, still a very, very slow process.So I decided to just learn more simple pieces and easier arrangements. It isn’t just that learning an instrument is difficult enough but when learning the Piano, Organ and other keyboard instruments you have so much more to do apart from a Harpist. Right, left hand techniques and pedal techniques.

However, I find now as a teacher that this is not what holds most keyboard players back. Whilst learning such as a single line of music is difficult say for a wind or brass player, the swarm of black notes resembling warring black ants on the page as is enough to turn most budding pupils away. Liszt is nothing more than a composer for the Concert Player.Than about a year after starting the piano I saw an advert for something called Klavarskribo (Piano Scribe) A system which was invented and much more played in Holland. So I signed up for a course, and bought some Music as well. At first not being used to it, I found it as frustrating as the standard notation, but after 3 months learning and getting used to it I found that the pieces of music that were once years away were now right under my hands and though shaky I learned The Moonlight Sonata by Heart in a few weeks, and then a whole Piano sonata Waldstein (A very difficult diploma piece) Maybe not up to professional standards but at least I was gearing up to more extensive pieces.

Using Klavarscribo was also helping me learn standard notation as I was learning the same pieces on Klavar and standard notation. Now of course I can read standard notation as well as Klavar, but whereas standard notation is easier in the fact it is more accurate under the eye, Klavar simply makes reading music easy enough for everyone no need to learn hard keys with multi sharps or flats, Klavar does away with that, and I still use it for reference in performance. I have pupils that are dyslexic and are a little long in the tooth, and find standard notation very difficult and slow progress for the older person is often a deep frustration, so I offer lessons using Klavar and standard notation for the same pieces and have pupils that learn much quicker. For example I have one pupil that after 3 months of learning from scratch played Gymnopédies No 1 using Klavar and then Standard notation within a few weeks. Now they can play at a grade 5 standard after 2 years. It is the same for Guitarists that learn standard notation. They may learn it on tab first and then polish it up with standard notation. Klavar is the same, as it is basically Piano Tab, but more extensive with techniques and marking than Guitar tab often is.

Unlike Guitar Tab which is read across as standard notation is, Klavar is read downwards as it mirrors a keyboard. Klavar is a charity and I am not in any way affiliated with them, but I will promote what I think will help any player achieve what they think is impossible. Of course certain pieces do still need a skilled hand such as the 3^rd movement of Beethoven Moonlight Sonata, most of Franz Liszt works and Widor’s Toccata. But at least with Klavar it is reachable far sooner. Without Klavar I could not have achieved the level I needed to reach Post Graduate status, and now am showing others the way.

The Music itself is a little more expensive than standard notation, but it is worth the cost. Klavarscribo covers Piano, Harpsichord, Classical organ, Accordion and to a smaller extent the Pop Organ/Home Organ. There are full courses for each.

So do not give up play beyond your expectations and play Toccata and Fugue in D Minor by Bach without fear, it is very reachable for amateurs and beginners with Klavar. And who that plays the Classical Organ does not want to learn that most iconic piece?

If you need help just send a private message or leave a message on this Thread.

[myorgan]

The Music itself is a little more expensive than standard notation, but it is worth the cost. Klavarscribo covers Piano, Harpsichord, Classical organ, Accordion and to a smaller extent the Pop Organ/Home Organ. There are full courses for each.

So do not give up play beyond your expectations and play Toccata and Fugue in D Minor by Bach without fear, it is very reachable for amateurs and beginners with Klavar. And who that plays the Classical Organ does not want to learn that most iconic piece?

ButterFingers,

Congratulations on finding a method that worked for you. It is a true testament to the perseverance of some people to learn what they love--no matter the obstacles.

I was unfamiliar with this method, but have used something similar for years that is far cheaper. I challenge my students to a bet that they will learn to play the piano by reading the notes in 20 minutes or less. They actually accomplish it quite simply using standard notation. It looks very similar to your method.

My method (I learned in college)? I just rotate the music 90˚ clockwise. With the music rotated thus, the treble clef is on the right, and the bass clef is on the left. Middle C is in the middle. When the note steps to the right, the next finger to the right plays it. When the note skips to the left, the student skips one finger to the left. When two notes occur at the same time, well, you can figure it out from there. I haven't lost the bet yet. It's amazing how many students are in their right minds and learn better while engaging their right brain. Afterward, just rotate the music to the left 90˚, and you're good--no new music purchases at all.

Thanks for sharing the screen shots, as well as the name of the method.

Michael

[ButterFingers]

Thank you very much for that insight, I will try that with my own pupils. I never thought to rotate the music 90 degrees left and right. However, that might how Cornelis Pot came up with his Klavar system, except that the Klavar has no need for keys and shows a greater spectrum of the keyboard, using differing keys is always hard when learning, just making it easier and much easier to work both hands together, although hands separately is always instructed before a piece is put hands together.

Say for example dense chords with a heavy chordal melody line, where the fingers have to do do more than simple melody lines is just so much easier with a tab system, especially because it is far more widely spaced in Klavar, but standard notation is easier for the dynamics for example because they are easier to find instantly with standard notation. Fugues are also much easier with tab, and when reading in performance, Klavar is that much easier for learners because your eye picks up on where hands need to be much easier than on the densser closer together standard notation.

Klavar is more advanced than turning a page left or right and does away with some of the other obstacles that makes standard notation even more difficult. Also no need to turn the page left or right, the pupil can see all and it is much easier on the eye.

The Klavar system is very widely used in Holland, as it was invented there.

There are videos on Youtube about it. Take a look and see what you think.

Thank you!

[Admin]

If this method works for you and your students, very good. It seems to me though, that the effort required to learn Klavar notation would be better spent on learning to read standard notation and improving sight-reading skills in the first place. Perhaps Klavar helps some people to learn to play faster, but ultimately it's a crutch that will have to be discarded in favor of standard notation.

[ButterFingers]

Actually Klavar is not a crutch it is the opposite, it excels learning, and only takes a couple of months to learn taking years off learning more extensive pieces. Not only that, most pupils want to learn their favourite pieces without years of learning as standard notation is a barrier unless you have studied it for years. Spend Years practicing to get to the standard of the moonlight Sonata, or learn Klavar and play in about 3 months. Alot of people give up within the first year, so why not give them something they have only ever dreamed of playing. Keyboard skills are accelerated by Klavar, since it gets rid of the complicated and what you learn through Klavar then makes standard notation much easier, since students aptitude are accelerated, making command of the Keyboard far less daunting, as well as the complicated standard notation.

Guitar TAB is not a crutch, but a way to accelerate playing, so is this system.

[ButterFingers]

When studying my Grade 5 Associated Board my Piano Teacher thought it a good idea to give me a Chopin Nocturne to learn, good for the left hand. However on looking at all those flats, with double flats and mass of notes, I thought it would take months. So, I ordered the Nocturnes on Klavar and learned the piece that way first. Then after a couple of weeks I changed to standard notation and polished it off, So after doing this with a few different pieces, I found that standard notation was becoming much easier to learn much quicker. I teach both systems to most of my pupils and standard notation only to others.

When teaching people who have learning and reading difficulties, then Klavar really helps them. Also standard notation to the beginner is a high mountain to climb especially for older people learning the Piano and Organ, the fact the instruments themselves are more intimidating, all those keys and pedals, then they see the music, and it can be very discouraging, so giving them Klavar is an way of easing people into playing.

I find Klavar a good way of bringing people to learning the Piano and Organ who otherwise may not, or give up too quick.

[regeron]

Klavarskribo is one of a variety of ways of notating music on paper. It does offer the advantages mentioned already in this thread, in that it relates directly to keyboard layout and unfolds through time. It's easy to visualize where your fingers should be at any given moment.

The real disadvantage, as has been mentioned, is that the bulk of Western music is written in staff notation. Unless you transcribe one notation into the other, you're stuck. Also, it's a keyboard notation, so if you play any non-keyboard instrument, I don't think you're any further ahead. Perhaps ButterFingers can tell us whether non-keyboardists also use Klavarskribo.

We need to remember, too, that for Buxtehude, Bach and others of their time, there was the option of organ tabulatur - comprised mostly of alphabet letters, with symbols added to indicate note duration and which octave to use.

[ButterFingers]

Thank you Regeron, you have explained it a bit better than myself. I do understand that Klavar also have a system for solo instruments but I am unfamiliar with this, not playing Trombone for 30 years. Although standard notation is much easier for the wind and brass players for example. Again with all those sharps and flats it can be just as daunting for them as well, some keys are far more difficult for solo players too.

I had to learn figured bass for my final end of year degree performance, based numerals and symbols, and works much easier than standard notation, although a right pain to learn at the start.

The TAB for Organ of which you speak was developed from the French system used for Lute which was more highly developed and more widely used than standard notation was. TAB is easier to play with a Lute than standard notation, this flourished into many systems, are very difficult TAB system was the German Baroque but is far more difficult to read than our modern standard notation, and the Italian system was the first to use numbers but is read upside down to our own numbered system for guitar.

So do not think it is a cheat to use TAB for Piano, it is in its own right as legitimate. Staff notation is just a modern standard. Don't forget that the great composer John Dowland composed all his great lute works using TAB, as Weiss did after him.

[myorgan]

When teaching people who have learning and reading difficulties, then Klavar really helps them.

ButterFingers,

I prefer to refer to my students as non-conventional learners. They just learn differently, and unfortunately their teachers have often not caught up and still continue to use only one teaching method. I can find other ways to generalize who these students are, but I prefer to understand how they learn and adapt my teaching to their learning style. That's why this method is so interesting to me.

Guitar TAB is not a crutch, but a way to accelerate playing, so is this system.

You make an important point. That said, my issue with guitar TAB has always been that some versions have very little (or no) rhythmic notation other than the alignment of the numbers. Complex rhythms (i.e. dotted eighths or sixteenths) are almost impossible to record in guitar TAB. I did encounter one version of Sibelius that had rhythmic indications, but I haven't seen it lately.

Bottom line, is that all notation systems have their strengths and weaknesses, as well as benefits and detriments. That's why I was so happy to learn the method of rotating the standard notated music to make it more accessible to non-conventional learners.

Michael

[ButterFingers]

Michael thank you, I will try the rotation method once I have either my organs fixed or both sold on as spares, then I will be looking to buy another not sure which yet.

Best wishes