C. P. E. Bach's Sonata #4 in F Major

[voet]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of C. P. E. Bach's Sonata #4 in F Major? It is from his Prelude and 6 Organ Sonatas, Wq. 265. I is available on IMSLP, but it is very difficult to read. Any help would be appreciated.

[myorgan]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of C. P. E. Bach's Sonata #4 in F Major? It is from his Prelude and 6 Organ Sonatas, Wq. 265. I is available on IMSLP, but it is very difficult to read. Any help would be appreciated.

Bill,

I looked for H.84 in several locations and only found the edition you found. In that case, I would generally re-write the piece on Sibelius or Finale to play. I agree the hand-written copy is not very legible. In fact, it almost looks like a copy of an autograph vs. something professionally copied. I found a couple of versions listed for sale online (looking for H.84 vs. WQ.265), but there is no guarantee they'll be typeset vs. handwritten.

Good luck finding it!

Michael

[regeron]

This is from my own library. I don't know if other editions exist.

Edition Peters:
8009a = C.h.E. Bach - Volume 1 - the 6 Sonatas - Wq 70/1-6
8009b = C.h.E. Bach - Volume 2 - 5 other works - Praeludium D-dur (Wq 70/7), Fuge d-moll (no Wq number), Fantasie und Fuge c-moll (Wq119/7), Fuge Es-dur (Wq 119/6), and Adagio per il Organo d-moll (Wq n.v. 66)

Both publications are edited by Traugott Fedtke. The 1968 copyright for both is/was held by Henry Litolff's Verlag (I was surprised to see that a Peters Edition publication had a copyright held by another company. Perhaps there was a relationship between the two that i don't know about.)

[voet]

My thanks to you both, Michael and Regeron. I appreciate your assistance.

Regeron, in Volume 1 is the 4th Sonata in F Major? I believe this was originally published in a volume called Prelude and 6 Organ Sonatas, WQ 265 He wrote so many sonatas and I have found some that are called organ sonatas that I want to be sure. Unfortunately some of the descriptions for buying music online do not provide much information.

[regeron]

In the Peters Edition of 6 Sonatas:
I in A, Wq 70/1
II in B-flat, 70/2
III in F, Wq 70/3
IV in a, Wq 70/4
V in D, Wq 70/5
VI in g, Wq 70/6

According to the preface to this edition:
These Sonatas were written for Princess Amalie of Prussia, a sister of Frederick the Great's. She had a two-manual chamber organ "commissioned ... to be built in 1755 by Peter Migend, who served his apprenticeship under the noted Berlin organ builder, Joachim Wagner. In 1775 (or 1788) this organ was transferred to the church in Berlin-Buch undergoing removal during World War II. In 1960 the instrument was re-erected in the Church of Glad Tidings (Zur frohen Botschaft) in Berlin-Karlshorst by the organ builder Alexander Schuke of Potsdam."

"The Six Sonatas may likewise be given an authentic rendering on the clavichord, harpsichord or early pianoforte. If played on the organ, the marks of expression added by the composer to Sonata No. I will have to be modified accordingly. Sustained notes in forte and piano passages as well as octave doubling in the left hand may - as was the custom in C.P.E. Bach's day - be executed assisted by the pedals."

According to this website, Sonatas III, IV, V and VI were first published in 1755; Sonatas I and II in 1758.
https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works...p_Emanuel_Bach
This website doesn't include any other sonatas for organ.

There are a number of sonatas for piano. There is an H. 265, a Rondo for keyboard. There is no listing for Wq 265. Did you copy that number correctly?

This website also indicates two types of catalogue numberings:
H. — numbering as given in E. Eugene Helm, Thematic Catalogue of the Works of Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1989)
Wq. — numbering as given in Alfred Wotquenne, Thematisches Verzeichnis der Werke von Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (first published 1904; Wiesbaden: Breitkopf & Härtel, 1972); including Paul Kast's numbers for works listed in his Die Bach-Handschriften der Berliner Staatsbibliothek, Trossingen (Hohner, 1958) .

This website, listed as WQ 265, gives info for 2 sonatas:
https://imslp.org/wiki/Prelude_and_6...ilipp_Emanuel)
Sonata II in G minor, H.87
Sonata III in B♭ major, H.134

On the listing of CPE's works:
H. 87 = Wq 70/6, g minor (Sonata VI, not Sonata II)
H. 134 = Wq 70/2, B-flat major (Sonata II, not Sonata III)

[voet]

Regeron, you really went to great lengths. Thank you for your efforts.

The Sonata #4 in F Major is on IMSLP. If you go to C.P.E. Bach and then select collections you will find it under Prelude and Six Sonatas. According to the information there, "This collection which was published after the death of C.P.E. Bach contains mostly works from Wq.69+70." The Sonata in question is referenced as Wq.70/3; H.84.

I did print the rather poor copy available there, but, as I mentioned above, it is difficult to read.

[regeron]

Here's a Wiener Urtext Edition:
https://www.universaledition.com/she...manuel-ut50148

Here's another edition - Fitzsimmons:
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/six-sonatas-for-organ-sheet-music/20499876?utm_medium=cpc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw5_fBRCSARIs AGodhk-MgL6aCc-daXmjzVRsv6L8u-RZEBTfjPSKsxIGHGW0rPnyXMpt1bEaAud6EALw_wcB&d=sem_s idecar&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_ggl_{campaign_id}_&popu p=false&popup=false&utm_source=google&ac=1&country _code=CAN&sc_intid=20499876&scid=scplp20499876

And here's a third that claims to be a reprint, though I'm not sure what it's a reprint of:
https://www.bookdepository.com/Organ.../9781500633462

And if you want to read some more about CPE's organ music, here's an article. Unfortunately, I can't see what it's from or even who published it.
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/introductions_I-9-Intro.pdf

[andijah]

I own the Wiener Urtext Edition that @regeron mentioned.
I wanted it for the g minor sonata (I love that one) and it's not too expensive (at least over here), so it was worth getting it.

[Havoc]

In the Peters Edition of 6 Sonatas:
I in A, Wq 70/1
II in B-flat, 70/2
III in F, Wq 70/3
IV in a, Wq 70/4
V in D, Wq 70/5
VI in g, Wq 70/6

According to the preface to this edition:
These Sonatas were written for Princess Amalie of Prussia, a sister of Frederick the Great's. She had a two-manual chamber organ "commissioned ... to be built in 1755 by Peter Migend, who served his apprenticeship under the noted Berlin organ builder, Joachim Wagner. In 1775 (or 1788) this organ was transferred to the church in Berlin-Buch undergoing removal during World War II. In 1960 the instrument was re-erected in the Church of Glad Tidings (Zur frohen Botschaft) in Berlin-Karlshorst by the organ builder Alexander Schuke of Potsdam."

"The Six Sonatas may likewise be given an authentic rendering on the clavichord, harpsichord or early pianoforte. If played on the organ, the marks of expression added by the composer to Sonata No. I will have to be modified accordingly. Sustained notes in forte and piano passages as well as octave doubling in the left hand may - as was the custom in C.P.E. Bach's day - be executed assisted by the pedals."

I didn't remember this foreword so I took my Peters Edition out of the shelf. Mine reads as follows:

Little doubt remains as to the fact that they were written for Princess Amalie, as is evident from a note appended by the composer to the title page of Sonata IV: "These four organ solos were written for a princess who, altough she was unable to perform on the pedals or to play difficult music, caused a fine organ with two manuals and pedals to be built, and took great delight in playing upon the same." (emphasis added)

What follows is:the second part of the quote of Regeron.

So please, this Sonata IV was intended and should be played without any pedal, just as the composer intended because he wrote it for someone that couldn't play pedal. This isn't some "historical deduction" etc etc but a clear note of the composer itself.

And while this is according to the composer "not difficult" it is bloody hard. You are sitting stark naked at the organ. Any wrong note, any wrong timing and everybody (not only those knowledgable) knows it because even the minor error stands out like mount Everest in the Great Plains. There is a reason these are seldom performed in concert.

[Peterboroughdiapason]

There's a review of Iain Quinn's Naxos recording here - which gives a nice description of the sonatas.
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/...rgan-sonatas-0

[voet]

Thank you all for your helpful responses. I really appreciate your assistance.